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"Some of the things asserted are just not true," Kondracki said. "I have never seen a situation handled better than May 7. I congratulated all the men and women who were working after Air Force One got in the air."
Karen Dahl, a Democratic activist from Viroqua, countered, "Kondracki and I have two separate realities."
"There is only one reality," Kondracki replied.
Responding to written complaints by demonstrators, the La Crosse County Sheriff's Department and La Crosse Police each investigated police behavior at the event. Although a report on the investigations was not presented to the commission, its general conclusions were hotly debated.
Organized as Coulee Region Concerned Citizens, Bush visit demonstrators Dahl, local attorney Maureen Freedland, Guy Wolf of Stoddard, and retired businessman Hank Zumach of Stoddard, asked for the investigations.
"I am very disappointed to hear you say everything went perfectly," said Freedland, who is a member of the Police and Fire Commission. "I think there were problems. I would like to hear you say ‘There were problems, and we are willing to talk with you to come up with some guidelines so everyone's rights are protected.'
"I hope you do not consider this a done deal, that you exonerated your department."
"We could have had a day where the security of the president and the rights of demonstrators were protected," she said. "Instead we had a day in which the police department was willing to take partisan sides and keep protesters away and prevent a full and effective protest. I think our police department can do better than this."
Kondracki did not present the report to the commission. He delivered four copies to Freedland instead, because she requested the investigations in a letter to Kondracki, not in a complaint to the commission.
The public can get the report from the police department for the copying charge.
"I deliberately did not file a complaint alleging misconduct because my goal was for us to work together," Freedland said. "I asked questions, ‘Why was a chaplain there doing crowd control? Why were we video-cammed? Why was the right to use the sidewalk taken away?'"
In his statements at the commission meeting and in his report, Kondracki said all but one of the claims were false or "not sustained."
The report agrees with one allegation that officers told a demonstrator to put down a sign that contained a profanity.
Demonstrators disagreed with Kondracki's conclusions.
"Absolutely this is stonewalling the public," said Dahl. "The CRCC will be discussing this in a different venue, with legal counsel."
Zumach questioned how many protesters were interviewed for the report. "I was not interviewed, nor was Guy Wolf, nor were many others who sent letters regarding what they encountered.
Freedland said she understood only two protesters were interviewed, while 60 police officers were interviewed.
Kondracki said he did not know how many were interviewed and indicated some may have been interviewed for another report, which Assistant City Attorney Pam Captain said was not public information.
The allegations against police include:
---Denied protesters use of Copeland Park Shelter and electricity.
---Herded protesters far from stadium and park and off public sidewalks.
---Indicated protesters would be arrested for making noise, using a 55-year-old ruling.
---Used police chaplains for crowd control.
---Intimidated protesters by video-taping them.
"There were numerous intimidation tactics," Barbara Frank, an official of the Sierra Club, said after the meeting. "We were videotaped from head to toe slowly."
"The taping focused on the leaders," said Dahl.
Kondracki said police used the video camera only when the protesters were engaging in illegal activity. "Police officers did not use a close-range video camera when there was no reasonable suspicion of criminal activity," the report says. "Police used a video camera from a distance and from behind a snow-fence only after demonstrators trespassed across private property and obstructed police activities by entering the safe zone."
However, Kondracki told the La Crosse Tribune that the Sheriff's Department said the Police Department should look into its use of video-cameras.
At one point, demonstrators went through an alley and into private lots and then out on to the sidewalk on the east side of Copeland Avenue, Kondracki told the La Crosse Tribune.
"Some (of the demonstrators) were within arm's length of the motorcade," he told the commission.
Demonstrators were not close to the motorcade, Frank said after the meeting.
Kondracki said they went on to the private property when police told them to get off the sidewalk. Demonstrators say they were pushed.
Several demonstrators were seen trespassing on private property, the report says. It named Freedland, Dahl, Don Eggert, Wolf and Zumach.
Police could have made arrests but did not have time to do so, Kondracki told the Tribune. He is leaving the decision whether to prosecute with the La Crosse County District Attorney's Office and City Attorney's Office, he said.
The demonstrators allege that police chaplains were involved in crowd control, which they found intimidating. And Freedland indicated chaplains were among those videotaping.
"They were there for crowd control. I was controlled," Dahl told the commission. A police chaplains association told her that is an inappropriate use of chaplains, she said.
Two of the volunteers were chaplains, who assisted in distributing literature and answering questions, Kondracki told the La Crosse Tribune. They did not videotape, he said.
The Sheriff's Department report asks the Police Department to review its use of the chaplains, he said.
Commission members disagreed over whether the commission should consider the issues.
"Our job is to hire, fire and promote," said Chairman James Thornton. "If the report is not filed with us, it is not our business."
But member Lyell Montgomery said the commission has a responsibility to protect the public's interest. "If there is any place there should be a discussion of subjects like this it is at the commission," he said. "It doesn't serve the interest of the public if there is an implication that information is being withheld."
"We are talking of the integrity of the police department," he said, asking that questions regarding the reports be put on the commission's next agenda.
But Kondracki told the La Crosse Tribune the matter will not come to the commission unless a complaint is made to it.
Joan Kent can be reached
at (608) 791-8221 or jkent@lacrossetribune.com.
