To deceivers: The Circumcision painting was the same one. wrote on Jul 15, 2007 11:22 AM:
" Tribune reporter took photos of the paintings as they hanged at the hospital. Why would he print on the papers other photos? A pre-Gunderson- controversy, April '06 Tribune article states, "The painting of Jesus before his circumcision shows a woman in a black dress with a Star of David on a necklace. She is holding a baby’s hands, who lies on a couch with a yarmulke and a smile. They look to be dancing." There no knife or blood. "
Curious wrote on Sep 21, 2006 8:07 PM:
" Does LaCrosse have a non religious hospital? I haven't lived in Lax for some time. I don't think there was one when I left. I may end up back there and I wonder what religious icons I will be forced to include in my life. I've read some of this 10 commandments in a park? Are non religious people welcome? I remember it as a red neck city. Has that been replaced by christianity? Is Onalaska(sp), LaCrescent, etc. this bad as well? "
Back Clara wrote on Sep 12, 2006 3:27 PM:
" I back Clara. She is a gifted artist that inspires people. That is more than I can say for Gundersen-Lutheran. "
Standing up for Jesus wrote on Sep 12, 2006 11:04 AM:
" "Jesus was destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against, so that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed." Luke2:34&35. No other name gets such a rise out of people! He's the one! "
Support the artist wrote on Sep 10, 2006 8:27 AM:
" I back Clara all the way on this one. Quite frankly, her paintings are beautiful and added a little spice to the drab, institutional look of Gundersen-Lutheran -- at least temporarily. Gundersen-Lutheran, please stop living in the 1930's. Use art as a healing tool for not only your patients but for visitors to your hospital. Please stop taking down paintings that mean so much to people and make their day. And to the physicians, nurses, and therapists at Gundersen-Lutheran: Why have you allowed these anti-art people to take over your hospital? "
God has bless us wrote on Sep 10, 2006 8:15 AM:
" With all the problems we have in the world, God is blessing us through this artist. My parents had never had the honor to see portraits of Our Lord that were authentic to who he really was. I think Our Lord himself is illuminating and guiding Ms. Goldstein. She is an instrument of his peace. I feel blessed and grateful. I thank God for this gift. "
To the lukewarm..... wrote on Sep 9, 2006 9:24 PM:
" The Christianity we have inherited [thru catholicism, reformation, etc] was birthed in antisemitism. It's a historical fact. The Greek Jesus stands in stark contrast to the Hebrew Yahshua. One taught and lived Torah, the other nailed Torah to the cross. One is the true Messiah of Israel, the other anti-messiah. "Many will come in my name[christian] claiming I am the Christ and deceive many."
Tell me what commandments you keep, and I'll tell you which God you serve! "
Pam wrote on Sep 9, 2006 7:05 PM:
" I do not understand how the truth can be so upsetting to some. If they are such good christians, why don't they read the Bible and see the truth, it's all there. Jesus was Jewish. God saw to it that he was born of Jewish parents. If Jesus came back today,in this world full of anti-semitism. he would be shunned. "
D to the EAD wrote on Sep 9, 2006 4:55 PM:
" issue=old.
GO GL, YEAH!
YA'LL ROCK TOO FAST FOR PAINTING LIKE DAT. "
Old News? wrote on Sep 8, 2006 10:41 AM:
" Old news? I don't think so. Not until someone with an ounce of courage at GL stands up and says that a mistake has been made. Does GL really think we are going to forget this one? No way! GL has angered the people of the La Crosse area in a way that I personally have not seen anyone do in a long time. "
this is getting old wrote on Sep 8, 2006 8:21 AM:
" la crosse tribune should take this off now.
its old news. its dead in the water. face the facts people. "
??? wrote on Sep 8, 2006 8:13 AM:
" Wasn't Jesus a black jew "
For Clara wrote on Sep 8, 2006 3:39 AM:
" We support Clara, period. Admit your mistake and move on Gundersen-Lutheran. I personally think this banding together of GL staff on this forum is dusgusting. Groupthink at its worst. "
In response, wrote on Sep 7, 2006 9:59 PM:
" I dont think the artist displayed the painting of the circumcision that she put up in the hospital on the la crosse tribune. That is why you see no knife, that isnt the original painting. "
Fellow artist wrote on Sep 7, 2006 8:51 PM:
" I have been often touched by the concerns Clara brings up at the EastBank meetings. The first thing Clara did when she started this position was to make sure there was an effort to avoid offending an artist when being rejected by the jury committee. She would also pay for a fellow artist who cannot afford the fees. She is a nice person, but she will not let anyone offend her either. She speaks up whenever it is called for. "
From An EastBank Member wrote on Sep 7, 2006 8:37 PM:
" I am honored to be an EastBank member for which Clara is the President, and I am honored to know Clara. If we lose the walls at Gundersen, so be it. As an artist, I support Clara's decision to take a stand. What kind of a wimp leader would we have at EastBank, if she would have not. "
To "interesting" wrote on Sep 7, 2006 8:28 PM:
" I can just imagine how many people are requesting prints. I do so myself. This is world news. What is wrong in providing information people want to know. I don't have a problem with this artist making money. As a matter of fact, I hope she gets loaded!!!! She deserves it!!!$$$$$$ "
Interesting... wrote on Sep 7, 2006 4:51 PM:
" The following appears at the bottom of one of the nationally distributed articles:
If you want to order any prints, go to (website deleted)
"If you want to order any prints"? Gosh, who might have a vested interest in all this publicity ? "
Dutchman wrote on Sep 7, 2006 3:56 PM:
" It is a funny story.
However, the situation underlines the reality of the jewishness of Jesus. As a rabbi he did wear a talit. The jews became a blessing to all nations because of the birth of the jewish Messiah, at least for me. Al lot of people in past and present forgot that He was born jewish and not as a Greek | European. Personally, I feel deeply sorry for the fact that the church (including Luther) not allways appreciated and acknowledged God's special love for the jews. The jewishness of Jesus helps me to recognize this special love of God and helps me to love the jews. Please, love them too.
A hospital is not the best place for starting a debate, far from that... Or is it? "
A problem in the gift shop wrote on Sep 7, 2006 2:47 PM:
" The problem is not with these beautiful paintings. The problem is in the gift shop itself. Perhaps it is time for new policy or new management. The reputation of this so-called "Lutheran" hospital has hit an all-time low, across the nation. And is there Jewish representation on the board of directors? When will GL admit its mistake, admit that its entire staff is in deep groupthink, and there has to be a change in policy, in staff, and in the board of directors? Who do you people really think you are kidding? Get your acts together! "
To Truth of the Matter wrote on Sep 7, 2006 2:41 PM:
" It is quite obvious to us that you HAVE NOT looked at the paintings. There is no knife in the baby painting. Who do you really think you are trying to kid? Your so-called fellow employees or volunteers at Lutheran are pulling a fast one on you. As readers of the Tribune and family members of patients at Lutheran, we are SICK of you charcaters banding together and defending an action that is blantantly anti-Jewish. I think the whole bunch of you ought to go in for some additional diversity training. And Mrs. Riek ought to be in front row of the class! Does she still have her job down there or has she been removed? "
Thanks, Truth of the matter wrote on Sep 7, 2006 1:37 PM:
" If your account is reasonably correct it puts this all in perspective. "
re: truth of the matter wrote on Sep 7, 2006 1:01 PM:
" I just looked again at the photos of the paintings, and I could not see a knife in one of them....look at the circumcision picture, all I see is the rabbi holding baby Jesus' hands. Am I missing it? "
The Truth of the matter... Continued wrote on Sep 7, 2006 10:18 AM:
" Now, if you all want to keep twisting this issue (as was the artist's goal) into a Gundersen Lutheran vs. Judaism issue, than feel free. However that is not what happened, and to continue to spout the artist's lies is irresponsible on your part. "
The Truth of the matter... Continued wrote on Sep 7, 2006 10:18 AM:
" Second, the problem that the Gift Shop manager had with the display was regarding the "Circumcision of Jesus." This whole ordeal has nothing to do with Judaism, or the other paintings. Is it wrong for a hospital to not to want to display a painting that depicts a man with a knife standing over a baby? How is a young child supposed to react when they see a painting like that? I agree that the picture on the front of the Tribune on Monday looked very nice, and is not offensive to me. However a picture of a man holding a knife over a child is not appripriate in our setting. If you can not understand that, then that is unfortunate for you.
"
The Truth of the matter... Continued wrote on Sep 7, 2006 10:17 AM:
" Instead of calling the hospital and finding out what the problem was, she decidied to call the Tribune and get some free advertising. This whole controversy was manufactured by the artist with the sole purpose of free advertising and getting her face on the front of the tribune. Actually, I have to applaud her inventiveness in schrewdly getting so much advertising for free, however I hope it doesn't harm the other artists who have enjoyed the PRIVELAGE to display their works in our hospital. She abused the organisation that put her in charge to her own ends, which makes her incredibly selfish and irresponsible.
"
Here is the Truth of the matter wrote on Sep 7, 2006 10:16 AM:
" I am an employee of Gundersen Lutheran, and at first I was upset after I read the article. So I contacted those involved, and here is the truth of the matter which the article left out.
The artist hung her paintings in violation of the agreement that the hospital and her organization have. The procedure is to hang paintings during business hours so they can be approved, and anything offensive can be rejected at that time. The artist chose to hang them after business hours so that there would be no one there to view them, so that if they asked her to take them down she could make a big deal about it, call the Tribune, and have them take a picture of her doing so. "
rick harsch wrote on Sep 7, 2006 10:15 AM:
" Rabbi Jesus looks a lot like Osama bin Laden to me. Who is really behind these 'paintings?' "
Not Racist or Religious wrote on Sep 7, 2006 9:40 AM:
" I have one question for everyone that is complaining about Gundersen. Would you feel it is appropriate to have a beautiful painting of a KKK meeting burning an unfortunate colored person. It would definitely be a historical painting with some merit and while it would be totally reprehensible it would still be considered art. History and religion are definitely valid artistic subjects but NOT everything that is art can be displayed just anywhere. Gundersen has every right to accept or deny ANYTHING that goes on their property. While I thought the paintings weren't inappropriate, if someone hung them on my garage wall when I was gone I'd rip them down and toss them away because that is my prerogative. "
No Guts wrote on Sep 7, 2006 9:39 AM:
" I'm glad to see the Tribune had the courage to print the offensive pictures of the mythical Jesus.
Why didn't they have the guts to print the equally offensive cartoons of the equally mythical Muhammad that got the Muslims robes all bunched up? "
Publicity Stunt = Tabloid Trash wrote on Sep 7, 2006 9:29 AM:
" What most people seem to misunderstand is that this whole thing is simply a publicity stunt by the artist and tabloid trash by the Tribune. The artist waited until after closing Friday to place the pictures then conveniently had a tribune reporter/photographer on hand when she was there taking them down. All art is supposed to be approved prior to display and it wasn't PERIOD. Gundersen has every right to accept or deny what is in their institution PERIOD. End of story. "
Gunderson Lutheran cares? wrote on Sep 7, 2006 8:47 AM:
" I have been to several doctors at Gunderson, not one of them treated me as a person, more like a number. I have had reason to deal with administration, I found they are very offensive in the handling of a patients needs and concerns. It doesn't surprise me that they are taking a pious attitude about this. "
To keep an open mind wrote on Sep 7, 2006 1:00 AM:
" Gundersen-Lutheran's board of directors needs an overhaul if it allows and applauds this type of blantantly anti-Jewish action. Get real! There was NOTHING even remotely wrong with the paintings. The only thing GL was trying to protect (not the patients at all) was the possibility that one person might be offended by the paintings -- a common ploy by your unbelievably insensitive and secular administration. I have always believed that the ROOT of an organization's problems lies in its administration and more likely, it's governing body. Wake up. GL's reputation has taken a direct hit over this fiasco that could have been avoided. "
just wait for the next display ... wrote on Sep 6, 2006 11:05 PM:
" rabbi bush. "
re Bob Monk wrote on Sep 6, 2006 9:17 PM:
" Thank you for your comments. I am a GL employee - I think everyone here tries to do their best, and this controversy is unfortunate, to say the least. There are a number of individuals that work here that are not Christain - individuals that are Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, and so on. I have never detected any bias or animus (from workers or administration) and doubt this fiasco was motivated by "intolerance" or anti-Semitism. "
Was Luther anti-Semetic? wrote on Sep 6, 2006 9:01 PM:
" No, just anti_Catholic (!) "
Goyeh from Genoa wrote on Sep 6, 2006 8:03 PM:
" The paintings are breathtakingly beautiful. How sad those who need healing won't be able to see realistic, joyful art depicting Jesus's life. Thank you, "silly", for pointing out that Jesus was a Middle Eastern Jew. To "Jesus was a CHRISTIAN" - read the book of Mark and count how many times Jesus is referred to as a Jew - because, as you stated "There are no errors in this book." "
Keep an open mind ... ,To: Collapse of diversity wrote on Sep 6, 2006 6:47 PM:
" If I was on Gundersen Lutheran's board of directors (I'm not), I would take what you have said very, very seriously. "Never mind the man behind the curtain," as is said in the Wizard of Oz. The value and freedom of artists should never, ever be underestimated.
Yet, the medical center still needs to stay focused on helping patients. Each and every one of them. "
Ecumenist wrote on Sep 6, 2006 2:39 PM:
" For shame! We're wasting our time debating such mundane issues; my biggest complaint is that these paintings appeared on the front page! Next thing we know, we'll have to have our daily newspaper put into a black plastic bag, so we can protect our children from such photos. Folks, you need to get a life! Find something to do besides deride our local citizens and our world-famous institutions. . . . "
The collaps of diversity wrote on Sep 6, 2006 1:02 PM:
" The portraits were beautiful and reflect the Jewish origins of the Christian Church. Nothing wrong with them at all -- especially in a "Lutheran" hospital. This whole incident is a shocking example of how diversity in an organization can collapse in an instant due to the poor judgment of one or a few individuals who work there. More donations by the public to Gundersen-Lutheran? Read my lips Gundersen board of directors: NO WAY!!! "
Gundersen does not equal Lutheran wrote on Sep 6, 2006 12:52 PM:
" Finally, someone has admitted it: Gundersen-Lutheran is a secular organzation that is not equivalent to Lutheranism. My only question to the Lutherans who support this organization then: Why do you allow "Lutheran" to remain as part of the name of this hospital? "
you don't like it ? so don't look at it wrote on Sep 6, 2006 12:35 PM:
" i have the same opinion on this painting as the the 10 commandments in the park... if you don't like it, don't look at it. why would a picture of Jesus be offensive(freedom of religion people)I just don't understand why this would upset people, it is a painting. are there people that are offended by oh, lets say...bars? sure, so don't go in them. just the same about the painting, don't like it, don't look at it. i never knew that it was that hard to look away. "
Nestor wrote on Sep 6, 2006 10:30 AM:
" I think I am one Goyum who beleives that it is just fine. Matter of fact after we show these portraits we could have a few portraits of Arrafat, a few other Palestinians, or even a few present scenes from their bombed country (What country?). Just to be fair. Or we could have headphones playing a former Saturday Night Live show where they sang a song about who in our country that might be highly regarded is Jewish. Then we could have Lutheran night and sing who is Lutheran. Then we could.......... "
To "Reliable Source" and the Tribune Editors wrote on Sep 6, 2006 10:28 AM:
" The only thing reliable about your mean-spirited post and airing of your book-club dispute is that such comments waste precious time and energy, including your own. I thought the Tribune monitored this to prevent such "flaming." If one looks through the negative personal feelings, one could see that this issue tests our freedoms to express ourselves, especially about religious topics. Don't you find it strange that a private, religiously-affiliated hospital also wants to censor religious subject matter, just like a state owned facility? "
corgi wrote on Sep 6, 2006 9:41 AM:
" What's this I hear about profiling?? What does a Jew look like? I loved the happy young guy in the painting, nice portrayal...
A real coup for a budding entrepenuer who paints "
was Luther anti-Semitic? part iii wrote on Sep 6, 2006 8:48 AM:
" In fairness to Lutherans, it should be noted that modern Lutheran churches have repudiated such nonsense. Besides, 'Lutheran' is little more than a name in the case of Gundersen Lutheran, Luther having about as much bearing on this highly secular organization as he has on, say, the ELCA. "
to: what a joke wrote on Sep 6, 2006 8:48 AM:
" you're a joke. "
DJ wrote on Sep 6, 2006 8:46 AM:
" GL continues the stereotype that La Crosse is in deed one of the whitest cities in America. "
FOLLOW RULES wrote on Sep 6, 2006 8:40 AM:
" IF THE "ARTIST" WOULD HAVE FOLLOWED THE RULES AND HAD THE PICTURES LOOKED AT BEFORE THEY ARE PUT LIKE (LIKE EVERY OTHER PICTURE AT GL), THIS WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED. TO ASSUME THERE IS NO PROBLEM WAS THE ARTIST'S FAULT. TO JUST COME INTO THE FACILITY ON A FRIDAY EVENING AND JUST PUT THEM UP WAS THE WRONG THING TO DO.
GL IS NOT AN ART GALLERY AND HAS THE RIGHT TO PUT UP, OR NOT PUT UP WHATEVER THEY WANT. "
WOWZERS wrote on Sep 6, 2006 8:36 AM:
" this is some totally crazy stuff. i mean, c'mon YIKES! i think this is blow waaay way way out of the H20. lets relax..let it go... "
FROM A RELIABLE SOURCE.. wrote on Sep 6, 2006 8:31 AM:
" I know Clara personally, and she has a tendancy to blow things out of perportion. I have a book club that meets at my home on Tuesday evenings. Last night we discussed this issue, we all agreed that Clara is only doing this for the money& the attention. This is an outrage! "
You people need a life. wrote on Sep 6, 2006 8:30 AM:
" Maybe people should let this go and leave Gundersen Lutheran alone. It's their decision, not yours. "
Is the Lutheran church historically anti-Semetic? wrote on Sep 6, 2006 8:10 AM:
" This sort of comment has been introduced several times (even indirectly) in the posts concerning this controversy and at other times in the Tribune as well. Was Martin Luther anti-Semetic? Do the Lutheran congregations in the U.S. today still hold to views that are anti-Semetic? Is GL actually expressing a form of anti-Semitism that is just under the surface in the Lutheran belief system? "
Main topic. wrote on Sep 6, 2006 8:08 AM:
" It's good to see that the main news item in La Crosse is about a painting of someone no one really knows what they looked like, or what they really wore for that matter.
Maybe the main news story of the day should be of the lack of jobs in La Crosse that pay over 8 dollars an hour, or how the local lawmakers can bring in more industries to take the tax burden off of the home owners of the city.
I guess this type of activity is what compelled me to move to Minneapolis, where I can make over 20 dollars an hour while completing my Bachelors Degree.
Who cares about a painting that much? If you ask me, it looks like Dan Fouts. "
To Caledonia wrote on Sep 6, 2006 8:05 AM:
" I think the poster was referring to the Father Leif controversy of a few weeks ago -- his letter to the editor. Did you not see it? Even the Bishop of his diocese eventually found out about it. "
the paintings wrote on Sep 6, 2006 7:59 AM:
" I've seen them all. They are beautiful. All of them should be in churches across the Coulee Region. Finally, an accurate rendition
of the life of Jesus. I think the public relations department at Gundersen-Lutheran has taken a direct, and well-deserved hit over this controversy. Learn from it Gundersen-Lutheran; reclaim your Judeo-Christian roots. "
What a country wrote on Sep 6, 2006 7:34 AM:
" In a nation where our tax dollars go to support works fashioned out of human waste, a painting of an ancient Rabbi are controvercial? A little bit thicker skin is in order, thank you. "
reality check wrote on Sep 6, 2006 4:42 AM:
" maybe they should hang it at the St.Claire Mission, they don't get a percentage of anything, free health care, freedom of speech, freedom of expression, and the sister's would probably welcome the painting...shame on GLH ! you claim to want to make it more "patient friendly" well, you must have some jewish people that use your facility for health care, don't you want to reach out to all??? with this kind of attitude she is better to get her paintings out of there and show them where they are more appreciated...! "
S.A. Denver,CO wrote on Sep 5, 2006 11:14 PM:
" As the RABBI in question said; "Whosoever therefore shall confess(acknowledge)me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven, but whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven". "
ML Suriano wrote on Sep 5, 2006 10:29 PM:
" Yeshua was Jewish. When he was raised from the dead by YHVH he had 40 days to overturn what YHVH set up. He continued them, he was the living breathing Torah Word become flesh!
John 1:14-18 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. John testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, ' He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'" For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
"
Kent Pratt wrote on Sep 5, 2006 10:15 PM:
" My reading of the Bible describes Jesus as the Great Physician and Jewish at that. So how is it not offensive to portray him otherwise. Is this political correctness distorting the historical Jesus? "
To Sept. 5, 7:03 P.M. wrote on Sep 5, 2006 10:15 PM:
" The Virgin Mary was Jewish. Did she worship Satan too? "
To Sept 5, 7:03 P.M. wrote on Sep 5, 2006 10:14 PM:
" Yes, go read your bibles, just make sure not to miss the main message which is to love. "
YOU PEOPLE ARE CRAZY. wrote on Sep 5, 2006 9:48 PM:
" THIS WAS NEVER ABOUT THAT SINGLE RABBI PAINTING. IT INVOLVED HER OTHER WORK TOO. THE LACROSSE TRIBUNE NEGLECTED TO SHARE THE REST OF THE STORY. IT WAS THE ARTIST WHO CONTACTED THE PAPER. YOURE HEARING A ONE SIDED STORY. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. "
Wild Bill wrote on Sep 5, 2006 9:32 PM:
" Is this a result of importing muslim doctors? "
To "Eye of Needle" wrote on Sep 5, 2006 9:17 PM:
" Do you know that the Virgin Mary was Jewish? Of all the women in the world, God chose a virgin Jewish woman to be the mom of Jesus. If you hate the Jews, you hate the Virgin Mary and Jesus too of course. "
To "Eye of Needle" wrote on Sep 5, 2006 9:00 PM:
" I don't know who you really worship, but the Jesus of the New Testament not only was of Jewish descent but his own religion was Judaism. "
To "Eye of Needle" wrote on Sep 5, 2006 8:55 PM:
" To carry a message of love is to be pro-Christ. To carry a message of hatred is to be an anti-Christ. You, "Eye of Needle," are an anti-Christ. "
To "Eye of Needle" wrote on Sep 5, 2006 8:52 PM:
" Are you on drugs? "
To "Yahshua Christ Was Not a Jew" wrote on Sep 5, 2006 8:48 PM:
" I believe Jesus was the most loving person that has ever existed. I do not believe Jesus was mean and insulting. He would have never accused his entire family, friends and followers of worshipping Satan at the synagogue. Jesus loved the Jewish people and the Jewish people loved him. Jesus said, "...for salvation is of the Jews." (John 4:22) "
Mike wrote on Sep 5, 2006 8:43 PM:
" You had better change the name of the medical center in case the word "lutheran" offends somebody. Hee hee "
Jesus never been Jewish wrote on Sep 5, 2006 8:27 PM:
" On the contrary, he was killed by jews.
"
Pamela Mundling wrote on Sep 5, 2006 8:16 PM:
" My Savior IS Jewish...I would love to see the Rabbi Jesus series!
"
Russell Gonnering,MD, FACS wrote on Sep 5, 2006 8:10 PM:
" There is NO denying that Jesus was indeed a Jew, and to those who believe that He lives, He STILL is a Jew. He is of course much more than that, just as He is more than a mere human, but to deny this truth is to deny reality.
God chose the Jews--who am I to question this? He gave me the opportunity to be adopted into His family. Praise God! If anyone calls themselves a follower of Jesus,l and yet harbors an anti-Semitic philosophy, I question if they really understand what they are doing.
An artist portraying the Lord of the Universe as a Jew? GREAT! By doing so, the artist affirms the central tenet of Christianity. "For God so loved the world that He sent His only Son......" "
lois wrote on Sep 5, 2006 7:57 PM:
" "Clara Maria Goldstein says she created the Rabbi Jesus paintings to promote love, understanding and acceptance." These postings scream just how badly love, understanding and acceptance is needed! Shame on her for attempting to make beautiful and public such unpopular sentiments! "
Bob Monk wrote on Sep 5, 2006 7:39 PM:
" Gundersen Lutheran Medical Center is -- hold on to your hats on this -- a medical care center. One of the best in the world. This medical care is provided to all, respectfully and regardless of religion. "
born again in Louisiana wrote on Sep 5, 2006 7:07 PM:
" After reading about a dozen or so of these posts I had to stop. It saddened me to read such comments as were posted. Still the question rings thru the ages and the question that everyone will one day have to answer. (Jesus the Christ speaking) "Who do men say that I am?" "Who do YOU say that I am?" (Mark 8:27-29) If this world had needed it's financial problems fixed, he would have come as a financier; political problems, a person of presidential stature; world wide warfare, a great general. No, the world needed a savior. So he came as the Lamb of God. (NOTE) No one calls Jesus the Christ except by the Spirit of God.
In Christ,
Joe "
Gundersen Lutheran employee wrote on Sep 5, 2006 7:06 PM:
" I'd have to agree with the 3:44 and 3:32 postings. "
Lord our God wrote on Sep 5, 2006 7:03 PM:
" In the latter days perversions of doctrine shall be mainstream. Go read the words of church founders, the old Catholic popes to Martin Luther. Likewise to Jesus warnings of the "synagogs of Satan" the ancient Christian founders warn in unison. Folks, as I write blind worship of these people without question is very close to getting us into WWIII. Go read your Bibles. It's not Zionist-Christianity, it's not Islamic-Christianity, it's not Buddhistic-Chrsitianity, nor is it Satanic-Christianity......it's Christianity. "
Eye of Needle wrote on Sep 5, 2006 7:00 PM:
" To a Christian it's nothing less than blasphemy to say Jesus was a Jew. First off, in doing so, we deny the place of Jesus as God. You see, Jesus was not the BIOLOGICAL son of Joseph and Mary, whatever their ethnicity. Instead, He was the son of God Himself.
Furthermore, this racist and supremacist idea of "God's Chosen" master race. From the Biblical sense an Israelite wasn't even necessarily a Jew. There were 12 tribes in the house of Israel and Judah(Jew) is only 1 tribe. Furthermore, regarding this ethnicity the vast majority of modern day Jews converted to Judism in 800AD. Lineage wise they have nothing whatsoever to do with the Bible and the majority of the "Jewish" immigrants to the country of Israel are even athiest. In I John 2:22 we read, "He is the anti-Christ that denieth the father AND THE SON". "
This is beneath you La Crosse Tribune folks... wrote on Sep 5, 2006 6:27 PM:
" "We will not post reader comments containing racial, religious or personal attacks, slander, profanity, e-mail addresses, mailing addresses, phone numbers or Web site addresses that are for personal or promotional gain." Boy. I see nearly all of those in these posts. Gundersen Lutheran is getting bashed for not wanting to use its walls as a forum for an artist to advocate her position. These paintings weren't removed because they depicted Jesus as a Jew, but artwork about circumcision or with accompanying text designed to spark controversy, is just plain inappropriate for display in this manner. The Tribune should be ashamed of itself for trying to compete with the Enquirer, by putting this story on the front page, and for allowing the slanderous and religious attacks that appear in these comments. "
DB wrote on Sep 5, 2006 6:02 PM:
" Last I heard, Gundersen Lutheran was a medical center, not an art gallery. It shouldn't matter if Jesus was painted as a Jew or GeeDubya was painted as a giant smurf. It's still the hospital's call. "
Before making hasty judgements wrote on Sep 5, 2006 5:45 PM:
" why dont we find out more about the issue? The Tribune article didnt have many details -was the decision to remove the painting made by the gift shop lady, or by hospital/clinic administration? If someone was offended, who was it (patient, family, staff, giftshop workers), and why? All the attention seems pretty pointless to me. Per the author Terry Rindfleisch a second article will be in the paper tomorrow. Maybe some of those questions will be addressed. "
Painting wrote on Sep 5, 2006 5:11 PM:
" To bad for Gunderson, hooray for the artist. Jesus was a Jew and I would probably guess dark of skin..oh wait that doesn't fit the majority view...maybe we should have a constitutional amendment. "
Shem Silber wrote on Sep 5, 2006 4:44 PM:
" There is no way around it. YES, Yahshua came as a Jew, and YES, He was not only a rabbi, but a Rabbi of rabbis. But isn't there a commandment in His Torah that He gave Mosheh directing us NOT to have images of Him? Are we paying attention? May He come soon and straighten everybody out (myself included), and then we shall see what a world we shall have! Blest be the name of YHWH! "
All that matters...the bottom line wrote on Sep 5, 2006 4:15 PM:
" Let's face it - Gundersen Lutheran gets a percentage of the sale price. If they don't think they will make any money - they want out. Ask anyone who has had a call from the collections staff there - they don't care if they are offensive, heartless and rude. Some big contributor or hot-shot administrator took issue and Gundersen Lutheran responded. Business is business. Best of luck to the artist. A slam from that institution will boost her sales I'm sure. "
Boing Boing wrote on Sep 5, 2006 4:15 PM:
" Just a heads up. This article has recieved national attention! It has been blogged on boingboing.net. Check it out! "
Great Publicity for the Artist! wrote on Sep 5, 2006 3:44 PM:
" Many years ago Mike Royko wrote a column saying he fervently hoped the Catholic Church and Pope would ban a book of his. Royko said nothing could be more certain to increase the interest and sales of his book. People who had never heard of Goldstein will have to view her pictures now to decide for themselves whether or not they are controversial. What a great endorsement and free publicity. If I were Goldstein in future exhibitions, I would loudly proclaim: “THESE ARE THE PAINTINGS BANNED BY VITERBO AND GUNDERSEN LUTHERAN! See for yourself to decide!” "
Spread the Gospel wrote on Sep 5, 2006 3:32 PM:
" Look at this way. Why would they think taking down the pictures? Too many people asking to many questions. They have doubts. Lutheran hospital have doubts too. A lot of people there will die and cannot go to heaven. They dont belive in Christ but you have to think twice before going to heaven. Put up the pictures and they will think over it. Spread the gospel. You will never know people who may belive in Christ then they can go to heaven. Pray for the worker and patients at the hospital. :) "
a former Christian wrote on Sep 5, 2006 3:24 PM:
" This is the kind of hate that prevents me from ever going to church again. I left the church after over 50 years and will never return. If you don't agree with 100% of the dominant view, you are no longer welcome in church. "
worker wrote on Sep 5, 2006 2:51 PM:
" Probably some Dr. was offended...... Great promotion for the artist. "
Sherry Bayer wrote on Sep 5, 2006 2:50 PM:
" I think that Hospital is closed minded and not respectful of every religion. I am a Catholic but, if I remember correctly, Jesus was of the Jewish Faith. Not everyone is against learning more about the persons Faith, standing beside them. If everyone was more open minded, we might not have all of the problems that we do!!
Shalom "
To Dave wrote on Sep 5, 2006 2:40 PM:
" Gunderson didn't save my life, a doctor who worked there did (he was an atheist by the way). Just who's faith was on the wall?
I wasn't any more upset than if they had the Easter Bunny on the wall, I was just pointing out that they seem a bit too selective in who they don't want to offend.
It makes me swell with pride to think that God listened to someone's prayers and saved me, it means that whoever it was had more clout with the big guy than the thousands who were praying and ignored when the WTC went down.
I guess we'll just have to file that under mysterious ways. "
Ed M wrote on Sep 5, 2006 2:12 PM:
" Are there any links to view her works online?
I for one would love to see them.
"
HLD wrote on Sep 5, 2006 1:41 PM:
" Dr RJP wrote on September 05, 2006 11:42 AM: ("...Jesus...lack of real Torah knowledge is just one of the reasons why he was not a Rabbi, too.")
Jesus WROTE the Torah! "
ld wrote on Sep 5, 2006 1:21 PM:
" I saw the paintings at the Pump House. They will stir your heart! "
What Would Jesus Think? wrote on Sep 5, 2006 12:53 PM:
" It seems to me that Jesus of Nazareth spent His life teaching people to love one another, despite the labels and prejudices we simple humans use to make ourselves feel superior to or less frightened of one another. The story of His death shows us how our fears, insecurities, and our failures in being good and kind to one another can lead to horrible things, like the death of an innocent person. Here we are, almost 2000 years later, still attempting to label the Jews and the Christians and trading insults. Why don't we focus instead on finding a place where Clara can show these heartfelt paintings and folks can decide for themselves if the paintings have any meaning to them? "
Patriot wrote on Sep 5, 2006 12:51 PM:
" Judging from the number of posts this has gotten in such a short time, I think it's controversial nature is self evident. G&L doesn't want controversy distracting from what they do there. They have EVERY right to decide what hangs on thier walls, and what doesn't. Get over it already.
"
An American, Christian, Art Fan wrote on Sep 5, 2006 12:43 PM:
" I too wish that the article described some of Clara Goldstein's beautiful paintings so that more folks could appreciate this collection. Clara showed them to me recently and her technique is only surpassed by the thought-provoking subject matter. This is art and freedom of speech/expression at its best. Gundersen wanted good PR and profit by inviting local artists to hang their work at the hospital, but it's true colors have been revealed in its censorship of one artist who had the guts to paint something of substance. "
Allan Cronshaw wrote on Sep 5, 2006 12:26 PM:
" Shalom Terry:
You didn't supply any links where these paintings you describe in the below can be viewed. Neither did you supply an e-mail address of the artist Clara Goldstein where someone such as myself could communicate with her. As the soul who lived as Jacob, the Brother of Yeshua/Jesus (see http://BrotherOfYeshua.com ), few Christians today would either recognize Jesus, or accept those Gentile teachings attributed to him. He not only covered his head and dressed as a Jew, but in accord with the Nazirene Vow of Consecration, he never cut his hair or beard.
GodSpeed in TheWay,
Allan Cronshaw
Long Island, NY
http://Ebionite.com
"
Melody B wrote on Sep 5, 2006 12:23 PM:
" Martin Luther, founder of the Lutheran church/religion was very antisemitic. According to his own writings in his book "On the Jews and Their Lies" he makes his antisemitism very clear. Hitler was a great fan of Martin Luther and used many of his writings in his own propaganda. How hypocritical that they would even acknowledge Jesus as the center of their faith yet hate the Jews. Jesus was a Jew and was known as a Rabbi. Portraying Jesus, whose REAL name is Yeshua, as wearing a prayer shawl is EXACTLY as he appeared when he was walking on this planet as a human. "
Dave wrote on Sep 5, 2006 12:21 PM:
" In your comment you stated a few things.
1. Gundersen saved your life.
2. The cross on the wall in your room at Gundersen offended you.
3. Visiting clergy are not welcome.
What would you (more like your family) be saying if they had denied you care for being a non-lutheran? You came across as ungrateful to the people who saved your life.
Why get upset at someone elses' faith, it certainly didn't do you any harm?
"
Pete wrote on Sep 5, 2006 12:17 PM:
" I agree with Ugh. Comment boards like this are stupid. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but anonymous boards like this are more offensive than a religious picture. "
Do you people even know what it means to be Jewish??? wrote on Sep 5, 2006 11:57 AM:
" What is a "Jew?"
A citizen of Judea? Wrong answer.
A Semite? Wrong answer.
Here's the right answer:
Someone who believes in the same God that led the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt to freedom in Canaan, someone who believes that the Torah, God's commandments, were given to the Israelites at Mt. Sinai to follow, and someone who is a descendant of these Israelites, either through birth or by conversion.
If Mary was that someone, then so was Jesus.
End of story. "
Curious...... wrote on Sep 5, 2006 11:50 AM:
" Of all the people that commented here, has any one actually seen these paintings???? Just wondering. "
to: Jason in Italy wrote on Sep 5, 2006 11:49 AM:
" The bible is full of all kinds of lies. Organized religion is a farce!!!!!!!!!! "
What a Joke wrote on Sep 5, 2006 11:48 AM:
" I'm offended by the painting of the virgin Mary, because she was a lier. We all know that virgins don't get pregnant. Jesus's dad was a roman not God. "
Dr RJP wrote on Sep 5, 2006 11:42 AM:
" Was Jesus a Jew? Absolutely!
Was Jesus a Rabbi? No way, no how!
When Jesus was addressed as, "Rabbi," it was in the literal sense of the Hebrew word; i.e., "Rabbi" means "Teacher."
However, only a few Jewish teachers go on to become real Rabbis, too, in the religious sense. Becoming a Rabbi is like becoming an MD -- just because you practice medicine does not make you a doctor. Unless you went through a rigorous training program at a formally recognized mecial college, then you cannot call yourself a doctor.
The same goes for Rabbis and Rabbinical schools.
Jesus may have been a great teacher and communicator, but his lack of real Torah knowledge is just one of the reasons why he was not a Rabbi, too. "
Charles Floto Sr wrote on Sep 5, 2006 11:41 AM:
" i wish someone could explain away the fact that how anyone can paint a Picture of Jesus,make a statue of Jesus,see Jesus, and or Mary on a peace of toast,a window etc, when their is no discription of them from the bible. or a painting that came from the time of their liveing on this earth.Dha? Charles Floto (Msgt USAF Retired)Az.U.S.A. "
Jason in Italy wrote on Sep 5, 2006 11:05 AM:
" The Bible actually clearly states that Jesus Christ was and is God Almighty in the flesh!
He came to teach us the truth and die for our sins so that we may have eternal life through Him. Folks, don't get caught up in these "religious games" that people play today like this one here. Religion can only take you to an eternal hell. But the Lord Jesus is the only One who can take you to heaven!!! Amen. "
Stan wrote on Sep 5, 2006 10:48 AM:
" Lutherans are 99% antisemites, especially ELCA but also the Missouri Synod - they have done their best for hundreds of years to destroy every vestige of things Jewish from their religion. "
It Amazes Me... wrote on Sep 5, 2006 10:40 AM:
" This discussion is very interesting. It always is when the Jewishness of the Messiah comes out into the open. I would be interested to find out if the artist is a part of the Messianic congregational community or not. I just hope that "Jesus was a Christian" was being ironic and meant it as a commentary on what the hospital's view of Yeshua might be, not an actual expression of their opinion. As a Messianic rabbi (http://beit-tefillah.com) and a director in the organization Coalition of Torah Observant Messianic Congregations (http://ctomc.org), I am always interested in the discussion of this sort of thing. "
Richard Zimmerman, Valley Springs, CA wrote on Sep 5, 2006 10:22 AM:
" I am a 14th generation Lutheran and grew up with the understanding that Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi, as well as the promised Messiah (Saviour) who would come through the Jewish people. It never occurred to me that He was a Christian - - or even a Lutheran. Gunderson Lutheran Hospital's actions were petty at least; asinine at best. "
Ugh wrote on Sep 5, 2006 10:21 AM:
" You people discuss me and make me feel ashamed to live in this community. Tribune, I believe you should remove the comment posting option. It's constantly a ramble between others and is getting ridiculous. Or at least review them better and not post the immature ones as seen in large quantity below. Everyone, go to google and search for immature test, I'm sure all of you would get a 100% plus extra credit. "
Richard Zimmerman, Valley Springs, wrote on Sep 5, 2006 10:20 AM:
" I am a 14th generation Lutheran and grew up the understanding that Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi, as well as the promised Messiah (Saviour) who would come through the Jewish people. It never occurred to me that He was a Christian - - or even a Lutheran. Gunderson Lutheran Hospital's actions were petty at best; asinine at least. "
Honey wrote on Sep 5, 2006 10:12 AM:
" Keeping the painting would be the right thing to do, as long as it is respectful. Where's a picture of the painting so we can judge for ourselves? I don't see one including with this article. "
No Big Deal wrote on Sep 5, 2006 9:45 AM:
" If you research our country's history, you will see that the majority of hospitals were started by the church. Why do you think so many are named "Saint"?? The Bible clearly states that it is the mission of the Christian church to care for the poor and the sick.
I had the opportunity to work with Katrina victims for 2 weeks last fall. The overwhelming majority of volunteers were those from Christian churches - NOT the government, NOT from the ACLU, NOT from People for the American Way, NOT from Greenpeace.
These paintings deserved to be displayed. Jesus certainly was a Jew, and I would LOVE to see this artist's work. I hope her career flourishes due to this fauz-pax of Gundersen. "
Yahshua Christ was not a "Jew" wrote on Sep 5, 2006 9:38 AM:
" Yahshua Christ tells John in Revelation 2:9 “I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Judeans, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan”. Yahshua Christ never used the word “Jew” to describe himself not one time in the New Testament. If you have any doubts about the truth in the above statement please look in any encyclopedia or dictionary under the words Khazar-Chazar and Ashkenaziam. Therefore we must conclude that the first “Jews” were Canaanite-Edomite-Hittite. It is certain, according to the Bible that “Jews” are not Israel and Yahshua Christ is not a “Jew”!
"
Barbara Scott wrote on Sep 5, 2006 9:23 AM:
" Jesus is a JEW , His name in Hebrew is YESHUA HA'Mashiach SAR SHALOM meaning, Jesus the Messiah, Prince of Peace.
He was probably very dark and ethnic looking.
The whole Bible is Jewish, written by Jews by The Holy Spirit of GOD, and to the believers in YESHUA as GOD ALMIGHTY
Shame on them for NOT hanging her pictures !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "
Why Caledonia? wrote on Sep 5, 2006 9:17 AM:
" Anyone like to say why st. Mary's in caledonia would be a good place for the painting? "
To Dave wrote on Sep 5, 2006 8:55 AM:
" The medical staff cared about me, NOT management.
There are many members of the staff who don't believe in the Jesus myth, would you suggest that they be fired?
Apparently Jesus was unable to make Gunderson care enough about their minimum wage housekeepers to keep them from getting rid of them so those upper management "Christians" could keep their middle six figure salries. "
chanah robinson wrote on Sep 5, 2006 8:52 AM:
" Jesus or YESHUA his real name was not a christian how can he be a follower of himself?
He was a jewish rabbi and he was not half Jewish since it is the mother being jewish and not the father that determins if he is jewish or not "
re Anton Dokter and Jesus being half-Jewish wrote on Sep 5, 2006 8:43 AM:
" Wow, really? So, what side of his family was Jewish - Mary or Joseph? And I always thought he was just plain Jewish. Whatever happened to his non-Jewish relatives? "
Return the Paintings wrote on Sep 5, 2006 8:33 AM:
" There are some decisions that require reversal and this is one. Gundersen will demonstarate strength by admitting actions taken were hasty and not thought through. In order to increase tolerance, we need to practice it. "
Lois wrote on Sep 5, 2006 8:33 AM:
" GL has the right to cover its own wall space. That it did not evaluate the art before it was hung is its own lack of responsibility. (What do they do to earn 20% commission?) The unprofessional manner in which they handled this is a PR nightmare--highly offensive to the artist and to the community they serve, undoubtedly more offensive than the presumed effect of the paintings. They should seek immediate damage control by offering to show all the Rabbi Jesus paintings at a different site. "
National attention? wrote on Sep 5, 2006 7:46 AM:
" I wonder if Clara wouldn't mind a little national attention should this catch some eyes and ears elsewhere. It might create more interest in her paintings by facilities that would appreciate and be proud to display them. Shame on you, Gundersen. "
A lost lesson wrote on Sep 5, 2006 7:28 AM:
" What was most impressive about Clara's display is that with each painting there was an artist's statement that explained the Jewish religion.
It was meant to be educational and to identify shared backgrounds and beliefs, perhaps to even bring us together because of what we have in common.
Incidentally, it was all tasteful, including the painting of circumcision -- it showed nothing.
How sad to miss this opportunity to learn from each other.
"
Sharon wrote on Sep 5, 2006 7:12 AM:
" I would love to see these paintings. I hope the artist decides to make her work more widely available. "
Dave wrote on Sep 5, 2006 6:51 AM:
" To "They didn't care about me"
Apparently they cared enough to make sure you survived your ordeal.
If your life is falling apart Jesus can help. Jesus was a Jew. If you have a problem with Jesus being a Jew then don't follow Him.
If your body is falling apart then Gunderson can help. Gundersen is a Lutheran hospital. If you have a problem with Gunderson being Lutheran, then don't go there for medical care.
It was the Jew, Jesus, who caused the Lutherans at Gunderson to care about people. That is a good thing.
"
Whose decision was it? wrote on Sep 5, 2006 4:35 AM:
" Who really made the decision to take down the paintings? Mrs. Riek or someone else? Who supervises Mrs. Riek? The Tribune has to find out the complete story here -- or will it be buried by the spin masters at Gundersen-Lutheran? Is Mrs. Riek taking the heat for a decision made by another person? "
Gundersen's faux pas wrote on Sep 5, 2006 4:26 AM:
" This is a major public relations flop for Gundersen-Lutheran. Denying the Jewishness of Jesus? Exactly what decade are the powers that be at Lutheran living in? Are you really a hospital sponsored by the Lutheran congregations of the Coulee Region or are you a secular organization under the guise of a Christian banner,attempting to squeeze as much money out of these church-goers as possible? There was an unbelievable lack of professionalism and sensitivity directed towards not only Jews but towards Lutherans in this matter as well. "
Anton Dokter wrote on Sep 5, 2006 2:39 AM:
" Don't forget...Jesus was only one half Jewish, The other half was by the power of the Holy Ghost at the time of conception. Also, after Jesus showed himself to the deciples
they hardly recognized Him as being Jesus.
"
chuck moody wrote on Sep 5, 2006 1:10 AM:
" Perhaps the best shot for the artist would be to make her work available on the net. A whole bunch more people would see it than at some hospital someplace. The Emporer Tiberias' court reporter was sent to Judea to see what the fuss was about this Rabbi. Using the iodiom of the time, he described a man who could easily have gone in the second round of the NFL draft and who had blue-grey eyes. "
John M wrote on Sep 5, 2006 12:29 AM:
" The Messiah's name was not Jesus.. It was "mis-translated" by the previous pagan populace from that era. The letter J was not even invented until the 16th hundreds. His name in the original Hebrew read:
Yahshua (Yahweh is Salvation)
Later translated to Yeshua, Ieasous, Ieasus, and finally the modern Jesus. Jesus is NOT the name of the Savior, nor will he acknowledge anyone who calls on him by any other name.
And Yes, he wore a Kippah and Tallit. The Holy Garments that were required to be used in the Torah. This is the only book he and his disciple studied from. One final tidbit, he was not an ordained priest of the Temple, nor of the Temple priesthood Hierachy. He was acknowledged as an ordained priest from the area of North Israel in a city near Gallilee named Abilene. "
Karen wrote on Sep 5, 2006 12:24 AM:
" Why the controversy? The simple truth is that Jesus, while in the flesh was a Jew and a Rabbi. The facts speak for themselves! I'd LOVE to see these paintings. The problem is not that he is depicted as a rabbi, I believe, but is that Jesus is depicted at all. Truly, a sad commentary on our times. "
Re: They didn't care about me wrote on Sep 5, 2006 12:08 AM:
" Well somebody obviously cared for you...because it seems to me that you've made it through more than just one night! Maybe it was because of all the clery visiting you and the cross hanging in your room. Believe it or not, somebody was out there praying for your recovery. "
Circumcision wrote on Sep 4, 2006 11:17 PM:
" Luke 2:21 says that Jesus was circumcised when he was 8 days old. "
Patriot to unnamed commentor wrote on Sep 4, 2006 11:12 PM:
" Art which depicts Jesus being crucified isn't considered controversial, even by non christians. Only christians believe Jesus was the savior, but other religions agree that he existed and was crucified, or at least don't care if others believe it. I'm sure if there were art at G&L depicting common Jewish themes (There may even be or have been) there would also be little controvesy. The thing here is, while true Jesus was a Jew, Christians see him as so much more than that. The painting in question might offend Christians because it is Jewish art possibly implying Jesus was nothing more than just another famous Rabbi. "
To "With All Due Respect" wrote on Sep 4, 2006 10:54 PM:
" First, I know for a fact that the artist was asked to remove all of her paintings, not just some like you said. Second, there was no description of a circumcision procedure below any of her paintings. Third, the arrangement that the artists have with Gundersen is called consignment and Gundersen gets 20% commission. "With all due respect" get your facts straight. "
to: with all due respect wrote on Sep 4, 2006 10:44 PM:
" Sounds like a typical canned answer to me. Never meant to insult her? How else would you expect her to feel? I've seen Clara's paintings and didn't see anything offensive or controversial. Gundersen made this decision and now they're going to have to take the heat for it, and I think they owe an explanation as to what they considered to be 'controversial' about the paintings. "
Controversial reply wrote on Sep 4, 2006 10:36 PM:
" No. I'm not. I'm saying exactly what I said.
That is not what I said. Read it again.
A hospital is not the place for this discussion. I fully agree with "with all due respect" and will cease writing about this so I no longer contribute to the fact that this discussion has gotten out of hand. "
Chris wrote on Sep 4, 2006 9:53 PM:
" I find it hard to believe these pictures are 'offensive'...Jesus was a Jew...so I don't see a problem.
But...
I would like to see these pictures.
I can't find them on the internet...
Does anyone have a url where I can see them?
Thanks,
Chris
"
Agree with Keep Painting, Clara! wrote on Sep 4, 2006 9:37 PM:
" ...and I couldn't have said it better! "
Reality Check wrote on Sep 4, 2006 9:34 PM:
" Although Jesus may have come from the Mid-East with their unique characteristic features, it might be more of an issue of negative profiling in light of today's problems in our political environment than making an artistic statement. After all the portrait most accepted by Americans is the one painted in the 1940's which portrayed him as dark blonde with blue eyes. Get real people! Can't change the reality that Jesus looked more like Mohamed than he does Sven. "
To "Controversial?" wrote on Sep 4, 2006 9:17 PM:
" Are you saying that all of the crosses should come off the walls of Gundersen Lutheran in order to avoid upsetting those non-Christian patients already going through stressful times? "
To "I've Seen Her Artwork..." wrote on Sep 4, 2006 9:01 PM:
" Either you have not seen her artwork or you are venting your envy because when you see Clara's work, it is obvious that she has mastered the painting techniques to the finest levels. Her paintings are aesthetically graceful, intelligent, and elegant. "
with all due respect wrote on Sep 4, 2006 8:46 PM:
" What the La Crosse Tribune lacks to mention is the other few paintings that were asked to be taken down, one including the circumcision of baby Jesus, with a description of the act written below the work. This was never meant to be a religious dispute over whether Jesus was a Jew or a Christian. With that said, Gundersen Lutheran in no way made this out to be an act of demeanor towards any such religion, nor did they ask for this to be blown to such proportions. They simply asked an artist to remove SOME of her many art work she was displaying [at no cost] in the lobby of a health care facility. This facility never meant to insult her, and to their credit I think the community should cease making this bigger than it needs to be. "
Keep Painting, Clara! wrote on Sep 4, 2006 8:40 PM:
" I love your paintings, Clara. They do not offend me in the least. They are thought provoking and meaningful. Keep up the good work. "
To: They didn't care about me wrote on Sep 4, 2006 8:28 PM:
" Glad to see you made it through that night and are still fiesty! "
JS wrote on Sep 4, 2006 8:23 PM:
" Gundersen Lutheran doesn't care about the taxpayers either. The residents of Onalaska and La Crosse had to foot the 25 million bill for their parking ramps. It is nice to know Gundersen Lutheran cares about the communities they serve by taking as much from us as possible. "
To "No Big Deal- Upsets Patients..." wrote on Sep 4, 2006 7:53 PM:
" It seems to me that you have no problem with seeing Jesus on the wall while he is suffering on the cross, but to see him happy wearing his Jewish prayer shawl is upsetting to you. Why is it in good taste to take the former off of the wall? "
Controversial? wrote on Sep 4, 2006 7:50 PM:
" The postings prove the point.
They are filled with strong feelings and in several instances even cruelty in both directions.
While this controversy may be very important, a hosptial is not the place for this discussion - it is distracting and could be upsetting for people who are already going through stressful times.
Gundersen Lutheran's decision was clearly made with that in mind. "
They didn't care about me wrote on Sep 4, 2006 7:27 PM:
" When I was in the hospital after a serious accident (and not expected to live through the night), no one asked me if I was offended by the cross in my room (I was) nor was I asked if I wanted to be visited by a stream of clergy (I didn't). To say that this might offend a patient is the biggest load of BS I've heard for a long time. Don't forget how this caring institution treated their housekeepers a few years ago after they unionized. "
Thorn wrote on Sep 4, 2006 7:21 PM:
" I bet just ONE person "whined" about this picture. The PC police are alive and WELL in LAX. "
Re: People 10:02am wrote on Sep 4, 2006 7:20 PM:
" What part of "Lutheran" of Gundersen Lutheran makes you think this hospital is not religious? Maybe it would be okay if the hospital was named Cedars-Sanai Gundersen? "
Jesus was a CHRISTIAN (part II) wrote on Sep 4, 2006 6:48 PM:
" Sigh...I knew the sarcasm would escape many of you. I thought of putting a disclaimer at the end but I really that Tribune readers would have been smart enough to figure that out. I guess I was wrong. "
Concerned About Missed Sarcasm wrote on Sep 4, 2006 6:42 PM:
" Some of you completely missed the point of "Jesus Was A CHRISTIAN!". He was being sarcastic. He was spoofing Fundies and their very poor logic. "
to: to jesus was a christian wrote on Sep 4, 2006 6:36 PM:
" Folks, this was meant as sarcasm aimed at people who deny the Jewish roots of their faith. We all know Jesus was Jewish. The sarcasm meter doesn't seem to work on La Crosse folks too well. "
To "Jesus Was a Christian" wrote on Sep 4, 2006 6:08 PM:
" Would you love Jesus even after you learned that he was Jewish? Or do you love the Jesus of your imagination that never existed? "
Bob Monk wrote on Sep 4, 2006 5:52 PM:
" Some very sensitive and cogent comments have been expressed in regard to this issue. I'm not a spokesperson for Gundersen Lutheran, but I think it accurate to say that the committment to the delivery of health care (not art) is its primary mission. This committment is further exemplified in the art in the sanctuary in the East Building -- respecting, welcoming, and caring for ALL.
"
Breathtaking wrote on Sep 4, 2006 5:41 PM:
" I have seen Clara's art and met her personally at her exhibit at the Pumphouse. Not only is her art beautiful, but she is quite breathtaking herself! "
To "Jesus was a Christian" wrote on Sep 4, 2006 5:39 PM:
" So the last name of Jesus was Christ? God wrote the Bible himself? There are no errors in the Bible? Now see, this is why it is so difficult to have any INTELLIGENT discussion with these Bible fanatics. "
Inspiring wrote on Sep 4, 2006 5:38 PM:
" This artist is innovative. She has painted Jesus depicting a truth that has never been painted before and she has painted him with a big beautiful smile. This is the best portrayal of Jesus that I have ever seen. "
Why is truth controversial? wrote on Sep 4, 2006 5:22 PM:
" Why is a Jewish-looking Jesus controversial and a non-Jewish looking accepted, since Jesus was Jewish? "...a Hebrew born to Hebrews." (Phil. 3:5). A Jewish Jesus is more authentic, not more controversial. "
Just wondering wrote on Sep 4, 2006 3:56 PM:
" 20% ???? come on! "
A Hospital Isn't The Place... wrote on Sep 4, 2006 3:53 PM:
" Good for you Gundersen Lutheran. A hospital isn't the place for an artist to display controversial artwork just for the sake of creating headlines, and building a career for herself. This artist is welcome to make her political point somewhere else, not a healing place. Viterbo refused her too--is anyone accusing them of political correctness or anti-semitism? Those who think Gundersen Lutheran is intolerant should go see the beautiful Sanctuary in their East Building. All are welcome in this healing place, except those who are TRYING to cause controversy. "
To Patriot wrote on Sep 4, 2006 3:38 PM:
" Like most Christian facilities, Gundersen has had pictures by Christian artists of a European looking Jesus being tortured or being murdered, which apparently is acceptable. Yet a painting of a Middle Eastern looking Jesus in the traditional clothing of a teacher of his faith is not acceptable? One wonders if the painting were the same and the artist were Christian if there would have been any controversy. "
To "Jesus was a Christian" wrote on Sep 4, 2006 3:36 PM:
" So the last name of Jesus was Christ? God wrote the Bible himself? There are no errors in the Bible? Now see, this is why it is so difficult to have any INTELLIGENT discussion with these Bible fanatics. "
Relax everyone! wrote on Sep 4, 2006 3:04 PM:
" Clara is a good person, and she's expressing herself through art. Other people express themselves in many ways, some through crafts, some through racing their cars at the speedway, and in millions of other ways. The best part about it is that it's HER expression and not everyone else's. She doesn't deserve to be ridiculed for that... unless everyone else should be ridiculed for their expression too.
"
Let's Be Balanced And Fair Here wrote on Sep 4, 2006 2:07 PM:
" I agree with "Need To Put Patients First." Clara Maria Goldstein might be viewed as a good artist by some, but Gundersen Lutheran, like any other private organization, is well within its rights to say "no thank you" to her request to post a painting of Baby Jesus being circumsized. How many of us would open our own home foyers and hallways carte blanche to the artwork of outsiders. Gundersen Lutheran had the right to choose and it exercised that right.
From a medical and religious standpoint, circumsition can be a controversial issue. Many of the criticisms by those who have submitted earlier comments are uncalled for and unfair. "
R A wrote on Sep 4, 2006 1:54 PM:
" OR, they may have thought they would have the ACLU knocking on the door. We can't have anything religious on certain property you know!!! Always the politically correct stance these days, it is disgusting. "
Patriot wrote on Sep 4, 2006 1:54 PM:
" It would seem Gundersen Lutheran doesn't want it's facility turning into a center for religious controversy. No matter what side (if any) you take on the contents of the paintings, I think we all have to respect G&L's right not to allow them to detract or distract from their mission, which is providing helath care services. "
Jesus was a CHRISTIAN! wrote on Sep 4, 2006 1:24 PM:
" To all you people who say that Jesus was a jew, explain to me why jesus' last name was "christ". Obviously he was a christian. I every thing I need to know is the bible, which was conveniently written in english by God himself. There are NO errors in this book............................................ "
Ezekiel 23:20 wrote on Sep 4, 2006 1:22 PM:
" I don't see how it could be any more offensive than Ezekiel 23:20 (NIV). "
RE: Maybe it's just PC run amok.... wrote on Sep 4, 2006 1:19 PM:
" The ACLU is not involved. It's a hospital, not a place for religious statements. If they don't like Gunderson's policy, put them somewhere else. Pretty simple isn't it. "
Weird Harold wrote on Sep 4, 2006 12:30 PM:
" Mr. Rindfleisch's article does not contain much in the way of describing the paintings. As such, it is difficult for a reader who has not seen them to understand the "controversy". Having said that...
If it is the case(as the article hints but does not state)that the paintings are being removed because they show Jesus having what are considerd to be semitic physical features and participating in Jewish rituals, then the artwork's removal is truly unfortunate and, frankly, is an embarassment for the entire area. Bigoted, historically(and biblically)ignorant patients deserve the same careful medical attention as anyone else. However, Gunderson Lutheran does all of their patients and visitors a disservice when they allow the prejudices of a few misguided souls dictate hospital policy.
"
A good home: Caledonia wrote on Sep 4, 2006 12:04 PM:
" The best place for that portrait of Rabbi Jesus seen in the Tribune today would be St. Mary's Catholic Church in Caledonia, Minnesota. "
To Clara wrote on Sep 4, 2006 11
Advertisement
