HoChunk Senior 05 wrote on Nov 15, 2006 9:42 AM:
" This issue is not of how we view ourselves and our pride. It IS an issue of how it promotes racism within and outside of our school. As proud as we may be of our mascot, we must also keep in mind the safety and comfort of our children in their attaining of an education. Keeping this mascot teaches our children at a young age that racist acts are okay, and they're NOT! This needs to change and by changing the mascot we can start getting rid of this perception "
concerned citizen wrote on Oct 29, 2006 2:44 PM:
" I'm a 1986 graduate. I'm proud to be a Tomah Indian. A part of Tomah's hertiage will soon be forgotten. What's next? Changing the name of Tomah? It's named after an Indian Chief. Most of the cities, towns and villages in Wisconsin have something to do with Native Americans. It's a sad day in Tomah and Wisconsin. May-be the school board should have asked the people of Tomah how we felt instead of being bullied by someone in Madison. "
Tomah Alumni - 1968 Graduate wrote on Oct 24, 2006 9:08 AM:
" Dear Patriot2, As a minority I fully understand that respect for the minorities cannot be fully reached by an election, but I do understand that ALL american's (White, Native, Black, Asian, Hispanics) can voice their opinion by who or what that feel is right by VOTING.
I have studied at great length how the Native Americans, Blacks and Nesa (American Japanese) where treated and was appauled. I also have studied at great length, how without the help of the Native Americans (Chief Tomah) our ancestors would never have made this country what it is today, A Democracy. Turning Wrongs into Rights. "
Highly Illogical wrote on Oct 23, 2006 5:21 PM:
" Sadly, the lesson for the students wasn't "respect for minorities." Rather, it was knuckling under to a few complainers who do not represent the larger minority community. "
What's next wrote on Oct 23, 2006 5:00 PM:
" Sorry to say goodbye to the Tomah Indians. First it's the schools mascots. Then park's, street's and city name's.When will we need to remove Native Indian's for our history book's. They are their own Nation within the border's of the USA. There for they can not be part of the American history. It's their history, not our's let them write about it. A few people (who know best) have started the ball rolling to elimiate the Indian from any referance of any kind. Some day the poeple of this nation will not know who the Native American's were. As for a new mascot "Tomah" with black and white colors. That way we can be proud to be a "nobody". 80 grad, proud to be a "have been" "
education wrote on Oct 23, 2006 2:00 PM:
" its good to hear so many positive comments from tomah alumni regarding the present and future of the schools mascot. i trust the school has no problem reaching students who are as motivated in current events as we see on this blog. this bodes very well for the future of the next generation of students being churned out of the district. be proud of your activism. we together are making a better educational system for our children. i think this has opened up the eyes on both side of the issue as to what it's like to debate issues and compromise. it shows the system is working, this is aboout education and based on the interest shown, tomah must have a great school system. "
Patriot2 wrote on Oct 23, 2006 1:36 PM:
" Dear Tomah Alumnus, respect for minorities is not about an election. Discrimination isn't validated because a majority of people hold prejudiced views. Democracy in the United States starts out with every American given the respect and freedom to live without fear of stereotyping, bigoted mascots, and exploitation. So maybe you passed your government class. But it sounds like you need to repeat your social studies courses and learn more about the Indians in America and their treatment by European settlers. We cannot undo those wrongs, but together we can advance mutual respect and understanding in Wisconsin. "
Tomah Alumni - 1968 Graduate wrote on Oct 23, 2006 10:19 AM:
" Well, well, well. Looks like democracy is dead and buried in Tomah and how ironic that this article is in the LaCrosse Paper, but nothing in the Tomah paper. Tomah School District, I think it is time to elect a completely new school board that will LISTEN to the people of the district. This issue should not have been desided by the school board alone. This issue should have gone to a district wide special vote. Which would have been less costly than what it is going to cost to change ALL the logo's in the School District. Mrs. Hedrich and citzens of the Tomah School District this decision can be appealed(your petition with 303 signatures was the majority in this evenings meeting) not the school board. Yes School Board, I was listening in Government Class. "
Patriot2 wrote on Oct 22, 2006 2:48 PM:
" Thanks for the name of the article. This is the final conclusion of the report on CSA (Childhood Sexual Abuse): "In this sense, the findings of the current review do not imply that moral
or legal definitions of or views on behaviors currently classified as CSA should be abandoned or even altered.
The current findings are relevant to moral and legal positions only to the extent that these positions are based
on the presumption of psychological harm." The report does not validate sexual abuse; it merely summarizes research on the harm that was measured. Read it yourself. "
APA coddles child molesters wrote on Oct 22, 2006 11:42 AM:
" The article in Psychological Bulletin, was titled "A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples." "
A real Indian versus a non-patriot "patriot" wrote on Oct 22, 2006 11:38 AM:
" Clearly, the referenced community columnist column was from a"real" Indian from the area. and the article (Sports Illustrated) quoted in the column involved "real" Indians. So, if we want some "real" indian viewpoints, let's look at them. No some extremist, socialist organizations like the Methodists, APA or DPI.
Give the "real" Indian a listen, and see what you might hear. "
Patriot2 wrote on Oct 22, 2006 7:36 AM:
" Thank you "doubting John Thomas". I felt like I was the lone voice out here suggesting that to employ the Golden Rule, doing unto others as we would have them do unto us, so to speak was some sort of radical idea. Just because the majority of people may wish to use stereotypes in a particular school district, does not mean that the responsible school board members should still do this. The majority of people in the South wanted to continue with Segregation but that didn't make it right. Why do we have to agonize so much about doing something right? In a school of all places! Can't our society move ahead and remove one of the last vestiges of racism from our schools where another generation of Americans will absorb this and then once again fail to see the need to change? "
just me.... wrote on Oct 21, 2006 6:37 PM:
" but the headline of the story says that the community will help decide the new name, well it seems to me that only 5 people had the decision to rip the indian away and 4 of them did. but now they want the community's involvment. where was the community survey to find out if they really wanted the name ripped off to start with? "
Doubting John Thomas wrote on Oct 21, 2006 5:56 PM:
" In an attempt to discredit and confuse, blogger *The APA* has made some far flung allegations about the American Psychological Association endorsing homosexual relations between adult males and boys. As has been pointed out, anyone can make unverifiable claims to be American Indian on a blog and so too can anyone make unsubstantiated contentions like the above. Where is the proof? Probably in the same place as Saddam Hussain's much touted WMDs. Regardless, blogger *The APA* would also no doubt contend that the U.S Commission on Civil Rights, the National Education Association, the United Methodist Church, the United Church of Christ, the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction and many other respected groups that have similarly called for the retirement of American Indian sports team mascots are also part of a vast left wing conspiracy. It must be tough living in a distorted, fear laden reality. "
Patriot2 wrote on Oct 21, 2006 5:03 PM:
" Please give me a link/source on that APA statement. I don't buy it. But it really is entirely off-topic. What I advocate for is respect, tolerance, and understanding. Of finding names for mascots that don't involve stereotypes of minorities. It really isn't such a crazy idea. Just change from the past I guess. There are more important concepts than nostalgia. How about brotherhood? "
The APA wrote on Oct 21, 2006 2:27 PM:
" Remember, the American Psychological Association also came out a few years back proclaiming homosexual relationships between adult males and boys as proper. They went as far to say that if pubescent boys encouraged it, adult gay males should comply with the boys' wishes. Clearly, the APA is a extreme leftist organiztion with no pretense of being fair, balanced and unbiased. "
Patriot2 wrote on Oct 21, 2006 1:13 PM:
" It is impossible to know who is an Indian, or what their background is on the blog. But review this report from the American Psychological Association of June, 2001, on the elimination of Indian Mascots: http://www.apa.org/releases/ResAmIndianMascots.pdf
Simply put, we may enjoy some of our mascots, but the goal os school is to educate and enlighten. If there is a possibility that mascots are hurtful, promote stereotypes, and oppress minorities, they should be eliminated. There is more to education than book learning. Clearly many still need enlightenment. "
An Indian speaks wrote on Oct 21, 2006 11:07 AM:
" This was from a few years back
http://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2002/03/24/stories/opinion/02community24.txt "
dw wrote on Oct 21, 2006 10:06 AM:
" to : Bravo to the School Board
Bravo? what is this about? Honoring or backing down to people who just don't understand culture recognition? This is going on and on, and we are allowing the ones who come forward "feeling" they are the minority and EVERYONE is against them. If we all shut up and live our lives...it may more acceptable with ALL cultures. Amazing, we don't have "American Day",..like there is "HMONG Celebration"...we don't have "WHITE History Day" recognition as we have "BLACK History Day"...can we move forward? All of the people who feel they are the minority, shut up and move forward with pride. "
Patriot2 wrote on Oct 21, 2006 7:54 AM:
" Please read all of the comments on this blog. Then you will understand that most of these writers believe that school mascots which stereotype a racial and ethnic minority like American Indians are perfectly fine with them. How do we as a society learn to feel the pain of others? How do we as a society educate our children about other cultures? America has a dreadful history of dealing with our native population. We distributed blankets laced with small pox and committed virtual genocide on the American Indians. What a small thing to consider today: dropping mascots at schools that demean and stereotype Indians! And listen to the uproar. It makes me sick. "
Thanks Dave!!! But what about Gary?? wrote on Oct 21, 2006 6:09 AM:
" My heading says it all!! "
A SAD DAY FOR THE TOMAH INDIANS wrote on Oct 20, 2006 10:34 PM:
" Our school board has let us down again. They just couldn't take the pressure and stand up for something that was wrong to do(like changing the name of our mascot). Let's all rally in Tomah to come up with a new name that we can be proud of. It is to bad the local Native American's didn't stand up and fight harder to keep the Indian name. It was a name that we were proud to represent when we played for the TOMAH INDIANS!! Why weren't they proud to have it named after them? I would suggest we all remember who voted this down when the school board elections come up the next time. "
TOMAH SCHOOL BOARD FAILS wrote on Oct 20, 2006 10:25 PM:
" Congratulation Mary Ellen Justinger and the rest of the TOMAH SCHOOL BOARD who voted against the Indian name. You have once again shown that people don't have the guts to do the right thing. SHAME ON YOU!! When the school board reelections come up, remember who let Tomah down. "
Yes, the Tomah Hawks ...... wrote on Oct 20, 2006 9:07 PM:
" ....does have a nice ring to it! And another thing-not only will the Tomah school district have to shell out the bucks to change the gym floor, stationary, etc., but every other school in the conference will have to change the mascot in their gyms. People need to stop being overly sensitive and worry about more important things...like getting rid of Indian casinos! I know I won't set foot in one again....my Norsk-Dane-German money is too good for that now! "
Fred Zepplin wrote on Oct 20, 2006 8:28 PM:
" The Tomah Migrant Workers "
Fred Zepplin wrote on Oct 20, 2006 8:26 PM:
" The Tomah Cable Guys....Git -r- done. "
Fred Zepplin wrote on Oct 20, 2006 8:25 PM:
" I vote for the Tomah One-Armed Bandits! "
Tomah grad 1984 wrote on Oct 20, 2006 8:17 PM:
" I noticed that Mary Ellen Justinger voted for the change. When I went to school in Tomah I had a teacher for American Indian History and her name was Mrs. Justinger. I remember she pointed out to me that respect to all other cultures and their history is important and I never forgot. Native Americans have always been part of this community and the Tomah mascot being an Indian was in their honor not in dishonor and that is how I understood Mrs. Justinger's interpretation back then. I must have misunderstood. I was proud to be a Indian and I am proud of having Native American friends. I fear this decision will create more problems. because trying so hard to show that we are politically correct we unwittingly create more bios and this in time defeats the original intent. "
Typical self centeredAmericans wrote on Oct 20, 2006 6:47 PM:
" still imposing their will on the native Americans. Give them a chance. "
get real wrote on Oct 20, 2006 6:16 PM:
" i may be from sparta and i have respect for american indians but they r tip toeing ont he edge of STUPIDITY. just because the tomah indian was offensive to them doesnt mean that it was offensive to everyone. the indians need to realize that it doesn tmean any disrespect to them but if its been this way for schools to have amercian indian mascots for years does that means the sparta school board need to say that the spartan logo is offensive to people? the american indians in the area need to see that they need to RELAX and get w\ thew program.... theres a old saying....IF IT AINT BROKE....DONT FIX it "
Judge wrote on Oct 20, 2006 5:25 PM:
" Just another black mark on the city of Tomah. Maybe you can call yourselves the "Tomah Stabbers" or the "Tomah Losers" because that is what you have become. "
Crosses the Stream wrote on Oct 20, 2006 5:08 PM:
" Some people are funny. They say these matters are unimportant but do everything possible to prevent a change and endlessly argue about their “non-issue.” They say there are more important things to worry about but forget that concerns may not be taken seriously when public schools use you as dehumanized, stereotypical sports team tokens that are on a par with wild animals which are also frequently used as mascots for America's sporting fun and games. They cry "Chicken Little" and say American Indian people will be forgotten if not used as sports team tokens but ignore that over 500 years of willful efforts to wipe out Native Peoples have already failed. They make wildly flawed, shallow comparisons between vocational or white European related mascots and those associated with Native Peoples. Some people are funny. Too bad the “funny” is more troublingly peculiar than humorous. "
nick K. wrote on Oct 20, 2006 4:55 PM:
" I have another good one that won't offend anyone: The Tomah leaves! Hopefully the birds wont bring an uproar...this is pathetic.. "
A DISGUSTED Tomah resident wrote on Oct 20, 2006 4:24 PM:
" If this isn't the DUMBEST thing i've EVER heard of, i surely don't know what is, although it figures that they'd cave in to that P.C. garbage "
Get ready Galesville wrote on Oct 20, 2006 4:07 PM:
" You're next! I'd like to suggest "The Galesville Geckos." "
Casino Cash wrote on Oct 20, 2006 4:04 PM:
" Speaks louder than tax dollars. "
Native American BS wrote on Oct 20, 2006 4:04 PM:
" I'm a Native American too. I was born in this country. My parents were born in the country. My grandparents were born in this country. I'm a native of this country. I can't be deported. I think that the American Indians need to move on and get over it. What will the 'tribe' find to cry about next? "
tradition wrote on Oct 20, 2006 4:02 PM:
" where is the pride and tradition in tomah?
it is sad when we are dictated to by the few apparently there is not strength in numbers "
Patriot2 wrote on Oct 20, 2006 3:58 PM:
" I believe the response of readers on this news story is very revealing. We as a society have to figure out our priorities. Are mascots more important than respect to minorities? Does it pay to change a mascot if it may be offensive to a group of Americans? Or is tradition more important because 'that's the way we've been doing it' even if it might be offensive? Does anyone in Tomah really care? Is it just a "liberal" cause, or are there real human rights issues at play? Something to think about. "
THANK YOU DAVE wrote on Oct 20, 2006 3:39 PM:
" THANK YOU FOR LISTENING MAYBE THE SCHOOL BOARD COULD HAVE WENT DOOR TO DOOR ASKING PEOPLE WHAT THEY FELT ON THE ISSUE I WAS UNALBE TO ATTEND THE MEETING ON THE ISSUE BUT DID TALK TO 2 SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS WHO ONLY GAVE LIP SERVICE TO WHAT I WAS SAYING JUST BECAUSE YOU HOLD A POSITION DOES NOT MAKE YOU SMARTER THAN THOSE WHO DO NOT THAN YOU AGAIN MR STUTZMAN YOU REALLY DO HAVE THE THOUGHTS OF THE "COMMON PEOPLE" IN MIND WHEN YOU VOTED THANKS FOR STANDING UP FOR US "
How about this.... wrote on Oct 20, 2006 3:34 PM:
" The Tomah Toilets! I can here the rally cry now....."C'mon Toilets....flush the (insert team name here)" "
Patriot wrote on Oct 20, 2006 3:26 PM:
" Anyone born on U.S. soil is just as "native" an American both by definition and by reason. That makes me a "native American" as well as most of us. "
sa wrote on Oct 20, 2006 3:09 PM:
" i never went to school here i was from milwaukee and i think it is a shame that they are changing the name i hope when we vote on a new mascot we all write indians. and lets rename the city dumb town that would go good.but thanks dave for trying. now i don't even know if i want my children in sports u took away what this town was about. let's just be the no town name. "
Re: What about the Sparta Spartans? wrote on Oct 20, 2006 2:41 PM:
" Thank god they didn't go for something like the USC Mascot. "
Why not name them honestly. wrote on Oct 20, 2006 2:37 PM:
" My vote, though it would be hard to have a chant, is to properly name it for the true original "NATIVE's". That would be dinosaurs or something like that. How about for the first immigrants? You know. Let's here it for the "Land Bridge Immigrants". Yea team. "
Irony wrote on Oct 20, 2006 2:31 PM:
" Mascots are used because people want to emulate certain qualities that that mascot represents. Indians were admired for their strength and warrior ethic, and they instilled fear in those who opposed them. Now it's the Democrats and the Indians themselves that want to elliminate this last little bit of admiration. I frankly don't care either way, but if I was an Indian, I would be sad that another bit of honor bestowed upon my people was being elliminated. At this rate, in 100 years, Indians will not be thought of as any different then Mexican immigrants. "
Class Ring wrote on Oct 20, 2006 2:30 PM:
" I want the tomah school board to reimburse me for my class ring that say's Indians on the side of it. If it offends people I do not want to wear it anymore and offend someone. I want $518.00 returned to me becasue fo there vote. Everyone else that feels this way please call your school board memeber and tell them to reimburse you. I bought it as a school program and my school board say's it is offensive, so they changed the name so I want my money back. Pay us back for our rings. "
elections wrote on Oct 20, 2006 2:27 PM:
" lets remember who voted to change the name and when reelection for the school board comes up lets let these people know we feel railroaded since when do elected officials not speak for the people? thank you for listening Mr Stutzman it is not easy to stand alone however this earns you respect the rest of the board needs to know respect is earned it does not come with the position i cant wait for election time "
Diversity: What the school should teach not dismiss wrote on Oct 20, 2006 2:17 PM:
" Diversity is one thing that pushes one to become a respectable adult. When we were all little, everybody had that one name that will be remembered. Being able to get over that is one step that pushes us to becoming an adult, and diversity is one attribute that makes Native American Chiefs so respectable. We are not so differrant after all. "
Pride Without Prejudice wrote on Oct 20, 2006 2:10 PM:
" When I think of an "Indian" there are a few emotions that can come to mind. Some like Honour, Wisdom, and Pride are some that i believe represent the Native American community very well. When I think of other mascots like the hornets or tigers or any other name that can be given to us there are no string emotions that make me want to stand up and sing our school song. I don't want to stand up and sing "Fight on for Tomah" because the board didn't even fight. I will always be a "TOMAH INDIAN" "
Get Real!!!!!!!! wrote on Oct 20, 2006 1:48 PM:
" Maybe we should just get rid of the mascots. Everytime I drive past the Holmen Middle school I see a HUGE viking on it. I'm Norwegian. Seeing this viking must mean that all Norwegians are barbaric killers! (I hope you sense my sarcastism). I would think that having a sports team or a high school mascot named after me an HONOR to remembering the past. I don't view indians as terrible killers, but if they view themselves this way they should seek therapy. "
CHIEF TOMAH wrote on Oct 20, 2006 1:48 PM:
" Try reading the Tomah Chamber of Commerce website. They have the history of Chief Tomah on there.
http://www.tomahwisconsin.com/historyofchieftomah.htm "
THANK YOU DAVE wrote on Oct 20, 2006 1:39 PM:
" I just want to thank DAVE STUTZMAN for being the only one to stand up and try and do the correct thing. This is a sad sad day for TOMAH. "
is it working? wrote on Oct 20, 2006 1:17 PM:
" by the way, how's that mascot working for Tomah? will they make it to state again for football or any other sport? good job tomah. "
Blame wrote on Oct 20, 2006 12:47 PM:
" You can blame the Republicans for this. They belive there way is the only way. An speaking as a former one I know from the inside. I would bet the majority of the voters on the school board that voted for this and did not listen to the people were Republican. "
Native Pride wrote on Oct 20, 2006 12:41 PM:
" Im native american and i travel all over the country going to basketball tournaments. we are all natives and go to all native tourneys. One native team was called the fighting whiteys. none of the other teams were named after white people of vikings or norsemen. they were after natives. Tomah is 99% white, why can't they call themselves who they are not after who they think looks cool as a mascot? why isn't being white not good enough?
show some respect and keep the native american name(s)out of the mascot debate. make up your own name. "
Surprised nobody has suggested ... wrote on Oct 20, 2006 12:39 PM:
" the Tomah-Hawks
(OK, it takes a creative pronunciation) "
binte wrote on Oct 20, 2006 12:38 PM:
" being from one of Tomahs' biggest rivals i won't mention from where. why not just call them TOMAH I-dividers! "
Why? wrote on Oct 20, 2006 12:34 PM:
" This is ridiculous. I would love for a team to honor me by naming me as the mascot. Whats next? Are school boards going to declare football as too violent of a sport and have it banned?? I played against the Tomah Indians, I respect the athletic program for what it is. Pretty soon every high school team in the country will be called the eagles or the hawks. "
where is the school boards pride wrote on Oct 20, 2006 12:29 PM:
" the school board is to represent tomah school district tomah has pride in being the indians shame on the school board for not having pride in the school mascot This could have been an educational opportunity for the surrounding areas The board should have done some public relations on why we have pride in being the indians instead of running from contraversy. is tomah school district a democracy by the people for the people i think not when will the board quit taking the easy way out? who represents the students certainally not the board or administrators "
i noticed something wrote on Oct 20, 2006 12:27 PM:
" I was reading this article and read who vote to get rid of the Indian mascot, and I noticed it was all women or what are women names. when something as important as this the side should be fair if you have 3 women then have 3 men! i just dont understand! "
A Tomah Citizen wrote on Oct 20, 2006 12:23 PM:
" I graduated from Tomah in the 1960's. In my heart, the logo will remain Tomah Indians. Throughout my lifetime, I have felt it an honor bestowed upon our city to be founded by a Native American, Chief Tomah; also, have the school mascot as Tomah Indians. I cannot speak for the Native Americans; however, I feel they were honored in the mascot and logo representing them for so many years. I find the decision made by the School Board very discouraging. And yes, by the way, where was GARY ??? Mr. Grovesteen did wrong in his decision to not attend this meeting. He knew the matter at hand; that his involvement was needed. A poor decision was made by the Board! Things will never again be quite the same! "
the guy wrote on Oct 20, 2006 12:22 PM:
" To Tomah Alum: Disrespect from other communities? No, you are wrong. The students in those other communities were trying to point out what so many have you missed--Just because a name isn't offensive to you doesn't mean it isn't offensive to someone else. The Tomah school board has my total respect and admiration! You made a tought decision, and you made the correct decision. "
Right On Ho-Chunk guy wrote on Oct 20, 2006 12:21 PM:
" You are absolutely correct. Being of native American descent myself, I too could care less about a school mascot. Educational opportunities for our kids, especially beyond high school, teen pregnancy, adequate healthcare are issues important to me. Drug and alcohol abuse is a problem facing teens today regardless of race. More can and should be done on this issue. Intolerance spreads bad feelings, and this is but one example. The vocal minority won one here, but I would encourage these people to get involved in changing the things that really matter. "
re:disappointed wrote on Oct 20, 2006 12:17 PM:
" I say bravo the a school board that did the right thing.Lets get on with picking a mascot we can use and celebrate. "
disappointed with board and school district wrote on Oct 20, 2006 11:59 AM:
" as a tomah resident i feel this is just another example of the school board and administration taking the path of least resistance tomah has pride in being the indians if other schools have a problem with this (dressing as cowboys etc) those students should not be allowed into school events oh wait that would require the administration to confront someone the board and administation have on numerous occasions ignored anything that is confrontational or threatens their "good old boys club" i feel sorry for the people of tomah they do not have anyone to support them "
Well said, Ho-Chunk Guy! wrote on Oct 20, 2006 11:58 AM:
" As one of the few Indians who have voiced thier opinion, I agree that there are more important things to worry about than a mascot change. "
TO THE PERSON http://www.tomah.k12.wi.us wrote on Oct 20, 2006 11:47 AM:
" THIS IS THE SCHOOLS SITE AND NONE OF WHAT THE SCHOOL TEACHES ABOUT US, HO-CHUNKS, IS TRUE. ITS ALL LIES. THEY DONT TELL OF MY RELATIONS FORCED INTO SCHOOLS BACK WHEN WE WERE MOVED FROM PLACE TO PLACE. FORCED TO LEARN ENGLISH, TO DRESS PROPERLY AND TRY AND CHANGE THIER FAITH IN OUR WORLD BEFORE COLUMBUS "DECOVERED" US. THE EVIL PARTS REMAIN OUT OF THE BOOKS TO MAKE THE SCHOOL CHILDREN FEEL WARM AND FUZZY ABOUT THIER COUNTRY. THE HISTORY BOOKS ARE VERY INCORRECT AND FALSE WHEN I COMES TO NATIVE TEACHINGS. WHATS GETS ME IS THAT TOMAH AS A WHOLE WAS GOING TO LYNCH MR. YOUNGTHUNDER FOR DEFENDING HIMSELF AND ACCIDENTALLY TAKING ACTIONS TO DO SO. "
Joker wrote on Oct 20, 2006 11:41 AM:
" Does this mean we need different words for "police chief" and "fire chief"? "
suggestion wrote on Oct 20, 2006 11:34 AM:
" I think we should change to the Tomah Tigers. No need to change colors or uniforms. "
Agree with Suggestion wrote on Oct 20, 2006 10:53 AM:
" Changing the name will bring this debate to an end. It comes up every year and it is time to move on. I had the same thought, go yellowjackets! "
You all can thank the Democrats for this! wrote on Oct 20, 2006 10:52 AM:
" You all can thank the Democrats for this! "
New Name wrote on Oct 20, 2006 10:46 AM:
" I like the idea of Tomah Cowboys.
How about the Tomah Snipers? or Tomah Green Gunners to honor Fort McCoy so close by. "
TOMAH ALUM wrote on Oct 20, 2006 10:44 AM:
" For those of you who were not at the volleyball game in Sparta this year or at other events at holmen or central where kids from those schools were dressed up as cowboys,
I beleive the time has come for a change. But as far as another nickname? let's just say were from Tomah, and then when people ask why we don't have a nickname. We can tell people, over and over and over about the disrespect not from our students, our parents and our school, but the disrespect shown from other communities. "
RE: the UWL Name Change wrote on Oct 20, 2006 10:42 AM:
" I was attending UWL when that "controversy" came up. As I recall-and the numbers won't be exact-the student body voted roughly 760-24 to keep the name while the student government voted 26-1 to change it. Hmmm....that's great representation of the people's will. Democracy at work...our elected officials listening to their constituents and responding to their one, shared voice of reason. Sorry to hear about your losses Tomah: loss of heritage and loss of representation. "
This Nation Offends Me wrote on Oct 20, 2006 10:38 AM:
" We are a country of jelly-spined, whiny, litigious, cry-babies who do not take any responsibility for our actions. Cry me a river. It is one thing to have an embarrassing mascot that does offend (Chief Wahoo of the Clev. Indians), or an offensive name (Washington Redskins), but the Indians? And the old LAX Chiefs? Not offensive at all. I'm part Romanian so I hope Tomah chooses the Tomah Blood-Sucking-Vampires as their new mascot. We Transylvanians will NOT be offended-but we may only show up for night games. "
More ridiculous P.C. stuff wrote on Oct 20, 2006 10:28 AM:
" I come from a Danish community....the sports teams are the Danes and the Lady Danes. And we are proud of the name and our teams and our town! Get a life folks. "When will it stop from a former Tomah INDIAN" is 100% correct. "
Bucko wrote on Oct 20, 2006 10:20 AM:
" Who gets the contracts to replace logos, stationary et. al.? School colors will have to be replaced too since they are tied to such a despicable tradition. Since caucasian males represent only 30% of the population of US, they should be considered a legitimate minority and since they are able to maintain such prominence, I say go for The Fighting Whities! I WOULD BE HONORED! "
HERE'S A NAME wrote on Oct 20, 2006 10:16 AM:
" RED WHITE AND BLUE TRIPLE 7'S
JACKPOT !!! "
Cowboy Mike ..... wrote on Oct 20, 2006 10:10 AM:
" if this change is so great..then why does the majority here disagree with it.........just Like over there>>>>>> wrote.....I too could just about puke...when I hear about all the old folks spending their life savings and social securiry checks at the good ole casino.....but that's ok....how about the 303 people who signed the petition...doesnt their opinion count?....I would like to see a recall for the Tomah School Board....(voice of the people)..my foot..... "
the answer wrote on Oct 20, 2006 9:58 AM:
" keep searching till you find the answer, your all asking the right questions. "
TO: Good Job Tomah School Board wrote on Oct 20, 2006 9:57 AM:
" Here is your reference about Chief Tomah...taken right off the Tomah School website.
http://www.tomah.k12.wi.us/schools/ms/staff/pages/luebkegayle/Tomah%20page/tomah/Chief%20Tomah.htm "
Get back to teaching wrote on Oct 20, 2006 9:56 AM:
" I can't think of any place in the U.S.A. that shouldn't honor the heritage of the american indian. Why hasn't the baseball team in Cleveland re-named their team? I'll tell ya why...TRADITION...and traditionally...teachers teach, and don't push forward a liberal agenda. Way to go Tomah...thanks to your school district, you all lose. "
When will it stop from a former Tomah INDIAN wrote on Oct 20, 2006 9:44 AM:
" As a white american I am wondering when it will stop. I never used to be racist but now I wonder. It's okay to have Indian only casino's, it's okay to have the black congressional caucuses, the NAACP, the nigro collage fund, the black intertainment TV network, the black movie awards, illeagal alliens. It's okay to call a white person a white man or a honky. But to have an innocent thing like a name the Tomah Indian's is wrong get a life. I guess it shouldn't stop there please remove the name Tomah from the city as a white American I find it very offensive. Whoops I am a white American so it doesnt matter. The Tomah school board should be ashamed of them selves. "
Nestor wrote on Oct 20, 2006 9:42 AM:
" I live with the humiliation of the vikings being used as a mascot every day. Since I am a 100% Norske. Get a life! "
Suggestion wrote on Oct 20, 2006 9:20 AM:
" I think that it is a decision that was made and now lets get down to the brainstorming for a new mascot. I am not sure if the school board and such will look at these comments, but I think that the Hornets or Yellow-Jackets since then the school colors would coordinate well. Maybe someone from the community could pass that along if anyone else likes it. Just a thought! "
the cost to change a logo wrote on Oct 20, 2006 9:17 AM:
" Have ya'll considered the cost of changing the school Mascot? I hope you have thought about that. The gym floor and the wall and I don't know what else but $$$$$. The Tomah taxes will rise once again. "
Bog Dogs wrote on Oct 20, 2006 9:09 AM:
" TOMAH BOG DOGS, CRAZII ANGLOS, TOMAH TITANS, TOMAH TRACTOR POWER, TOMAH HO-CHUNKS, TOMAH BADGERS, TOMAH VETS, TOMAH TRAILERS, TOMAH PULLERS, TOMAH EMUS, TOMAH WRECKERS, TOMAH MONSTERS, "
Another school lost! wrote on Oct 20, 2006 9:05 AM:
" Another school bowing down to a stupid idea that it offends one group! Not that the students fought with their heart and sole for it. Not that alumni stand proud when they talk about their school and mascot/name. Not that the name was derived to honor the Native Americans and not to disgrace them. Stand tall now oh Native American, very few are fighting in your name anymore! And personally, I have lost all respect for Native Americans and their flight. "
Ho-Chunk Guy wrote on Oct 20, 2006 8:42 AM:
" As an Indian, I can think of no issue that so divides and falsely represents the Indian community. The real truth is that the majority of Indians could care less about what the logo or mascot of any school is. In fact, a number of students actually enjoy it. (As my kids do.) What true progressive Indians care about is sky-rocketing levels of alcohol and drug abuse, the plethora illegitimate children that drain social service resources and lack of educational attainment. A few years ago, a Trib community columnist addressed in far better words than I can. Joan Greendeer-Lee is right, let's worry about education. "
good change, thank you. wrote on Oct 20, 2006 8:35 AM:
" what would you think is more representative of the student body, the indians or the cowboys? what do you want tomah to be known for? if a group of natives say its offensive, are their ideas and concerns relavent or are they trivialized? is the voice of the majority what dictates decisions or is it simply doing what is right? i congratulate the board for doing what is right even though it may not be the popular choice. honoring people means hearing their concerns not ignoring them. thank you. "
The History wrote on Oct 20, 2006 8:33 AM:
" I find it silly, considering the town is named for CHief Tomah...an indian. It was never a deragatory reference, but more a symbolic one. It is just close minded people who feel they have to gripe about every little thing. I read these posts every day and am amazed at the bitterness I find in them. Where is the compassion and caring you seem to portray on the topics that you cant share with one another? "
Good Job School Board wrote on Oct 20, 2006 8:33 AM:
" While many people don't find the Indian mascot offensive, the Native American people who the mascot represents do find it offensive. You can't claim that it isn't offensive if it isn't about your people. Think of it this way, would it be okay to have a mascot called the "Africans?" Probably not, so why have an Indian mascot? "
Lenny wrote on Oct 20, 2006 8:31 AM:
" I'm sure the tribes are much happier to be linked soley to casinoes now. "
Ole wrote on Oct 20, 2006 8:29 AM:
" What about us poor Norweegins? I find it offensive that Westby is allowed to demean my heritage that way. I think they should consider changing their mascot also. "
Re: Tomah School Board wrote on Oct 20, 2006 8:26 AM:
" Another politically correct WRONG decision by a spineless, jelly fish like, public governing body. "
Political Correctness wrote on Oct 20, 2006 8:22 AM:
" Run Amok(amuk?) I thought the example Patriot2 gave of that book seemed like it was the same type of stereotyping that people accuse teams with Indian names and mascots of doing. Also, what in the world happened to all the comments in the opinion section?! "
Good Job Tomah School Board wrote on Oct 20, 2006 8:21 AM:
" Thanks for resepting my feelings on this and changing this mascots name. Now this Name calling will come to a end. I would like to make a statement of "there was no Chief Toma" never heard of this fictional character. Ive ask numerous Coka's and Gaga's and none seem to have anything on this character. Ho-chunk Preservation has nothing either. If anyone can prove the existance of the Chief please post and references. This is my main arguement and I will continue to debate the existance of C.Toma. "
Congratulations, Tomah wrote on Oct 20, 2006 8:20 AM:
" This is a step in the right direction. If any of you saw Tim Wise at UW-L on Wednesday night, you will know that this was the only right thing to do. In fact, I recommend that the leaders of Tomah invite Mr. Wise to give a community workshop. It might open some people's eyes. http://www.timwise.org/ "
Class of '70 wrote on Oct 20, 2006 8:19 AM:
" It's time to drop all sports the cost is just to much for the taxpayer lets get back to education "
Jim Schappe wrote on Oct 20, 2006 8:14 AM:
" What ever new name for the Tomah Indians someone comes up with, please do not use the over used "Eagles" as UW-Lacrosse so quickly did several years ago after dropping their "Indian" logo. "
former Tomah Grad wrote on Oct 20, 2006 8:09 AM:
" such sad news.. they will always be the Tomah Indians to me... :(
"
Go Cranberries... wrote on Oct 20, 2006 7:46 AM:
" C R A N B E R R I E S..... GOOOOOOOOOOO Cranberries!!! "
Tomah Student wrote on Oct 20, 2006 7:44 AM:
" Honestly, I think its more offensive that we are getting rid of the name then it is to keep it. We didn't make fun of the name or bring a bad image to it, we gave it respect and honor. Now to say that we are removing it, to me, seems like we are saying that we will no longer honor the Native American culture. If I was a Native American, I would be outraged right now.....just being a student, I am outraged. Why don't we just call ourselves the blobs as our school board seems to have no backbone! "
Betty wrote on Oct 20, 2006 7:34 AM:
" And how long have we had (and still do) jokes poking fun at the Polish and Norwegian people?
No one has done anything about that! This giving in to a few people who happen to have very big voices is not democratic at all! "
David Lane wrote on Oct 20, 2006 7:24 AM:
" Finally, we don't have to be represented as indians anymore. I say we change the name of the city like Wisconsin Dells did. When the vote for a new mascot come up, I'm going with the Caucasian's. "
citizen1 wrote on Oct 20, 2006 7:07 AM:
" All for the Tomah Cowboys! Raise your hands! "
What a Shame wrote on Oct 20, 2006 7:00 AM:
" Why would this need to keep coming up if they voted to keep the Indians name? Make a decision to keep it and enough said. No matter what they name it, Tomah will always be the Tomah Indians. GARY - I hope where ever you were at was important. You were the strongest voice for keeping the Indians name and you werent there????? What shall we call the City of Tomah now? That has to be next on someones agenda. "
former tomah graduate wrote on Oct 20, 2006 6:44 AM:
" I find this very sad as I was proud to be a "Tomah Indian". But yet realize, things change. "
Former Tomah Indian wrote on Oct 20, 2006 6:27 AM:
" How about Braves or Redskins? "
Enough Already wrote on Oct 20, 2006 5:52 AM:
" I'm beginning to believe that a person/orginazition cannot emblish on the backbone of our country at all any more. What is the big deal about using the Indian Logo when it respresents good things. I think groups need to start looking at real problems in the world and not the simple things to complain about. All schools that have used Indian logos do it in respect of the history of the heritage, not to poke fun at something/someone. Why all of a sudden is this such a big issue. There's something about this being America that they seem to be missing. "
Patriot2 wrote on Oct 20, 2006 5:47 AM:
" There are things more important than mascots. Ideals like TOLERANCE, RESPECT, and UNDERSTANDING. In a wonderful children's book, "Walk Two Moons", Sharon Creech explains that one does not understand what it is like to be someone else until 'one has walked two moons in their moccasins'. Let us all think about that. While traditions ARE important, there ARE more important things than continuing to do what we have always done if what we have done is hurtful or disrespectful or adds to stereotyping minorities in our population. Thank you City of Tomah for leading in this issue. "
Congratulations Tomah! Welcome to the 21st century. wrote on Oct 20, 2006 5:41 AM:
" When I went to UW-L, they were the Indians and since they have changed to the Eagles they have done just as nicely in athletic accomplishments, school spirit, and community backing. There ARE more important issues than this and now this one is done forever. Have fun choosing a new school nickname. It is not difficult to find a great one that is also inoffensive to a peoples' race. "
What about the Sparta Spartans? wrote on Oct 20, 2006 4:03 AM:
" Oh, what those poor Greeks must be going through having a team with a mascot of a Spartan. And then, what about the Celtics. Oh, those poor Irish people. I bet they can't sleep at night knowing some team has that logo. And then there are the men that live in the West, those poor Cowboys! The list could go on....what is next? How ridiculous! These names and mascots are for pride and honor....not to ridicule. It is Tomah's loss. But in the long run, it will be the "Indians" loss. Sad. "
over there =====> wrote on Oct 20, 2006 1:56 AM:
" Good Ridance! I am tired of all the controversy. When schools took on these names it was to honor the area culture and the Indians themselves. I say if they don't want the honor, fine. Let's rename Winnebago Park, Red Cloud Park, Milwaukee, Wausau, even Tomah, and Tomahawk, and tear down the statues in Riverside Park. God knows we would not want to offend. Let's also tear down Ho-chunk casino because gambling offends me! "
just me .... wrote on Oct 20, 2006 12:08 AM:
" but i guess offensive things are in the eye of the beholder. i do not see the Tomah mascot at all offensive. this is a ridiculous decision and seems to me that they just wanted to get it passed in oder to not deal with it any more. i think more people should have gotten involved in the decision. "
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