Click here to view La Crosse Area Weather
Home > Opinion > Story
 Advertisement 

Published - Sunday, March 11, 2007

POST COMMENT | READ COMMENTS (36 comment(s))

Wisconsin needs state office to advocate for needs of Plain People


.
In less than two years, Wisconsin has seen three Circuit Court cases of seemingly local import: one involved sexual assault of a minor, another parental custody rights, the third accusations of child abuse. But theses cases attracted more than usual attention because those who stood accused were wearing clothing of a cut not seen in American life since the turn of the century.

Wisconsin is now home to the fourth largest population of Plain Peoples in the country — Amish and Mennonites of many different kinds live among their Old Order German Baptist Brethren, River Brethen and Wilburite Quaker neighbors. These descendants of Christian Pietist sects embraced Anabaptist (adult baptism) and pacifist tenets in 17th-century Europe and escaped torture and civic persecution by accepting William Penn’s invitation to colonize his new commonwealth where freedom of worship was guaranteed.
Neither Catholic nor Protestant, they were and remain a people apart from mainstream Christianity, seeking to live a “plain” life in the way of Jesus’ teachings, and embracing 2 Corinthians 6:17 “... and be ye separate.” They are perhaps our greatest success in the American experiment in religious freedom.

But here, also, are the greatest conflicts between freedom of faith and a nation of laws. State, regional and county agencies and district courts hire me to explain the nature of the Plain peoples. I advise medical, social service, safety, emergency responder and legal professionals on the culture and beliefs of the people they are charged to respond to. A hallmark of every conference, in-service workshop, program lecture and training session has been the hunger for information and an understandig of these unique peoples.

I am considered a “modernist” among national scholars of the Plain Peoples in that I feel strongly that the same laws that provide freedom to worship without interference also mandate that those — Plain or not Plain — who do great harm to the community must face the penalties our law require. The Amish truly believe that sincere repentance is punishment enough in the Church; I believe that repeat offenders from any faith endanger the vulnerable within their community and must be answerable to our laws.

I believe firmly that human hard-wiring gone wrong, or chemical brain imbalances, will outweigh penitence of the heart every time. Here I part ways with a people I love deeply, and have had many long talks among Amish friends without either side persuading.

Every week, busloads of prospective Amish land owners from the Eastern states arrive in various parts of Wisconsin hoping to find an affordable 1,000-acre farm. Within six months, in place of one retired couple on 1,000 acres, seven to 10 farmhouses may rise on 100-acre parcels carved out of the original farm. The impact on the towns around which they settle is immense, for the purchasing power of the Amish (strictly cash) is no joke in a time of depressed commodity prices, and the Amish almost automatically draw tourism dollars.

At the recent Wisconsin Sheriffs and Deputies Association annual conference in Stevens Point, a participant knew for a fact that there were no Amish in his county, to which I gently replied “No ... not yet.”

Wisconsin must establish an Office for Plain Affairs, and convene the first all-state Wisconsin Conference on the Plain Peoples. If the harsh and bitter statements made to me by unhappy Wisconsin citizens concerning their Plain neighbors is any indication, a major education effort must be implemented, and very soon, because we teach our children how to hate and pass on our bigotries to the next generation.

I call on Gov. Jim Doyle to open a dialogue on his unique citizens and to call together those of us who have worked many years among the Plain Peoples and are asking to be of service to him and his staff to hammer out state protocols, policies and plans that will help all levels of government respond thoughtfully to the needs of the Plain Peoples, and to also help the larger state community better understand their new neighbors.

The population will continue to grow rapidly; the conflicts are already escalating. The time is now.

Deborah Morse-Kahn is director of Regional Research Associates, Minneapolis, and author of “Born Amish” (2003). She can be contacted at dmk@regionalresearch.net.
.



 Advertisement 
 Tell us what you think...

 Comments »

unohoo wrote on Mar 15, 2007 11:03 AM:

" Come on! The stories of the legal cases involving the Amish in this state are laws that anyone would know whether you worship or not. It's just that simple, they are acts that go against the values of church and state. If you think a particular group of people need further instruction on those points I'd say it is your personal responsibility to do it and not the state or local government. "

Re: Last Word :) wrote on Mar 13, 2007 5:46 PM:

" By no means! Several excellent points have been made in this discussion, and more than a few questions posed. Those are very worth replying to! Their thoughts are worth my respect. Blessings and Light. - Deborah "

Re Deborah wrote on Mar 13, 2007 5:09 PM:

" You have to have the last word on everything, don't you. "

Re: unohoo wrote on Mar 13, 2007 4:15 PM:

" "...why don't you take it upon yourself to author a simple handbook informing them of the nature of our laws.." Yes, the education process should go both ways, but I will surprise you by saying that my goal would be to educate the Amish to our laws because, without the knowledge, they are frequently taken advantage of because they do not know their rights. They certainly do know that we have laws against certain kinds of acts but will deal with the transgression inside their church, wishing to not involve the English (non-Plain). It is when someone who has suffered harm seeks redress in the courts do we hear about their problems, and then we and they disagree on how we deal with such law-breakers. That was a critical issue in my article. - Deborah "

Re: A Fair Question wrote on Mar 13, 2007 4:09 PM:

" Deborah here: To "advocate" is a neutral term and, as a trained mediator, part of my work is to help both sides come to common ground, build bridges through education so that the "why" each of us lives the way we do is made clear. Yes, the Amish will make one-time use of a telephone, accept a car ride. The church rule asks only that one not own these items, for their repeated use--even the ownership itself--can become a source of pride. The occasional use is acceptable, and the Amish are very quick to offer compensation to their neighbors in time or dollars. Unless I have come on a legal case, I do not take sides: I am an educator and common understanding is my goal, so that citizens can make thoughtful choices based, not on hearsay or misunderstandings, but on facts. - Deborah "

A fair question wrote on Mar 13, 2007 3:41 PM:

" Many of the comments on here are quite juvenile or just plain senseless, but "Justice" and "Observation" are a couple of exceptions. It sounds like Ms Morse-Kahn is using "advocate" as a euphemism for special priviledges, and it is fair to question that without being called a bigot. And yes it is also very incongruous at best that telephones and cars are bad except if they're someone else's -- then that's ok. In defense of the Amish, however, remember when a tornado pretty much wiped out the town of Barneveld? The Amish were there in force to help rebuild. That's their philosophy: you need help, we'll help you; I need help, you help me (rides and telephones). "

unohoo wrote on Mar 13, 2007 3:06 PM:

" Maybe someone should just let the buyers know that when they live in Wisconsin they live by Wisconsin law. Since you seem to know so much about it why don't you take it upon yourself to author a simple handbook informing them of the nature of our laws and the possible outcomes of breaking them. You may want to start some group meetings for the parents to help them structure a charter for daily living including disipline, work, and good touch, bad touch. You could use the recent convictions as case study. I'm not being rude or mean just straight and plain. "

Sorry pro but.... wrote on Mar 12, 2007 5:57 AM:

" your inference was calling people not like you a bigot. it is just like a beuracrat not to come right out and call someone a bigot. You don't have the guts to do it. you say I am entitled to my interpretation then go on to say I miss the point. who is being the judge now. You know it is people like you that is driving this country into being less powerful by giving up to the minoirty. Groups have voices because of representation, if they want it come get it. as far as Debby goes, a state office is not for education, start a training plan for those that you think need it with you own money, and see if those services are wanted. "

To "Sorry But" and others... wrote on Mar 11, 2007 11:57 PM:

" Deborah here: the La Crosse Tribune put a different headline on the op/ed commentary than the one I had provided (A PEOPLE APART BRING US ALL TO COMMON GROUND). I do not see this proposed office as providing for the needs of Plain people but instead serving as a neutralemissary between two very different communities who have interactions--sometimes very challenging--and being a resource for education about a way of life that is not well understood by non-Plain folks (e.g., first responders, safety officers, maternal health care workers) whose mission it is to serve all Wisconsin citizens . "Neutral" is the key here. "

Boy, wrote on Mar 11, 2007 10:03 PM:

" You've never SEEN a redneck! "

RE: people of the coulee region wrote on Mar 11, 2007 8:00 PM:

" What a bunch of rednecks, listen to your little rants of hatred. I know it is scary when people are different than you, but not everyone likes to sit around with a case of budweiser, watch autoracing, and making lewd comments to their buddies everytime there 18 year old daughter brings a friend over. "

Another bureaucracy? wrote on Mar 11, 2007 5:53 PM:

" Just what we need. "

Observation wrote on Mar 11, 2007 4:50 PM:

" I have had various dealing with the Amish, and have always found it amusing that they believe they shouldn't own certain things, but have no problem using other peoples. For example, they don't own telephones but had no problem using mine when they had to call a hardware store. Once, an Amish guy was working at my house and he needed to make contact with another Amish-working at my friends house. Well, they each ended up using our phones to communicate. They also don't believe in motorized vehicles-but are happy to ask for a ride somehwere. It goes on and on. I like the guy-but I find it very quirky(if not hypocritical). They don't want to pay for the stuff-but are happy to use them and reap the benefits. "

Pro wrote on Mar 11, 2007 4:42 PM:

" On a final note. I have not called anyone a bigot, nor any other name - I simply said I don't tolerate bigotry well. I guess you're entitled to your interpretation. I can only guess my comment hit close to home and you interpreted it that way for a reason. Every individual must weigh the question of his or her personal prejudices for him or herself. Unfortunately, some people seem to miss the point. I am neither pro or anti Amish. I have simply said we owe it to ourselves to understand people different from ourselves rather than judging and misjudging them. It is obvious you know little about people different from yourself, and are content that way. You can expect the same consideration from others. My best to you. "

To: Hey Deborah wrote on Mar 11, 2007 3:29 PM:

" Good point...nothing like a very independent people wishing to be Dependant on some bureaucratic moron. Like that would ever work. Deborah, here's your sign for failing to think (your position through). "

sorry Pro but.... wrote on Mar 11, 2007 2:56 PM:

" Nobody said anything about being a bigot. Your resulting to name calling is very telling. To what are you a pro? or is this just saying you are "for" not against(con). either way many others feel the same way i do as witness to their comments. just because they are different does not make them or I wrong. I am glad to hear I have your sympathy though I don't want nor need it. It is the Amish who choice not to be educated to our ways therefore I choose not to be educated to theirs. I believe the question you had about representable has been answered. Not too tough to understand, but maybe you need some Webster education. "

Hey Deborah wrote on Mar 11, 2007 2:48 PM:

" Did you ask the "plain people" if the want an office full of beaurocrats interferring in their lives? Those people are pretty independent. I doubt that they want that. Besides, are we supposed to start a government office for every different group that has a unique set of problems? Just what we need, more beaurocrats to suck away our tax money and do nothing. "

Jake wrote on Mar 11, 2007 2:07 PM:

" I am offended by the use of the term "Plain People" in this article. I am plain and boring to look at myself but I'm not Amish, nor do I have a farm. Please come up with a more politically correct term. "Plain People" is already taken by us Middle age, balding guys with beer guts. "

Yeah, lets create an wrote on Mar 11, 2007 1:31 PM:

" Even bigger govenment. Then we can tax our way to freedom....or not. Get real lady, maybe I'll come visit you sometime in never never land. "

another example of... wrote on Mar 11, 2007 1:07 PM:

" the utter failure of 'diversity' and 'political correctness'. both were so highly touted as the answer to everything, yet the result has been just the opposite. instead of bringing people together, we have created 'special interest groups' to put up walls between people. i think it's about time to scrap the whole concept and instead of 'celebrating' how we are all different, start focusing on how we are all the same. we are all citizens of America, and all should abide by the same rules. and if your here illegally? your not a citizen, so you have no American rights. "

Pro wrote on Mar 11, 2007 1:07 PM:

" correction:"No Tolerance." "

Pro wrote on Mar 11, 2007 12:51 PM:

" Bigotry in any cloak is ugly and is one of the few things for which I have tolerance. Refusal to accept or attempt to understand someone because they may be different leads one to a lonely and miserable existence. My sympathy to anyone who feels they must live this way. The writer of the article seeks education and assistance not for the Amish, but for the rest of us who obviously lack information and understanding them. I don’t think she even asked for acceptance – just know who and what you really dealing with before you pass a blanket prejudicial judgement. "

Justice wrote on Mar 11, 2007 11:56 AM:

" Missing the point? The point is that all people living in this country are must follow the law regardless of their religion. Freedom of religion does not translate into literal freedom to do as one pleases. Disobeying the law may result in being charged with a crime. Child Abuse, sexual assault, and Neglect are all crimes that anyone can be charged with if there is probable cause that they committed that type of act - plain or not. They are protected under the law just as 'regular people' are; they have all the lawful, legal rights we all have. Yes, they are people too. People who are responsible to uphold the law and be good citizens of their own and of our communities. Laws and State Statutes are written to apply to all people - not just specific types of people otherwise that would be unfair, would it not? "

Look wrote on Mar 11, 2007 11:55 AM:

" There are many more 'plain people'. They surround me in my north side neighborhood. Poorly educated, low income, and female are abused by a legal system that is corrupt, uncaring, and capable of turning their head to a problem they are well aware of. The system is a dysfunctional tangle, a club, a fraternity of knucleheads with little integrity. 60-70% of women involved in a divorce in all too may Counties do so without the benefit of legal counsel. Mstly because they cannot afford one, or are intimidated by the same people that they are running from. They are all aware of this statistic, no the ramifications, and turn their head from it as there is little money to draw from anyway. Truth!!! You can be that even this author is making a darn good living from buzzing around this issue. "

To: Pro wrote on Mar 11, 2007 11:33 AM:

" So you think that just because someone has a point of view contrary to an opinion is it necessarily "anti-whatever." Whatever. "

Busloads come? wrote on Mar 11, 2007 11:29 AM:

" Why? There is land all over the world. Do we again bend our rules and spend public money for a people that refuse to assimilate? I know that is a bit strong, but why do they come here if there is so much disonance between cultures? I think your case is overstated. They are still citizens of the state and America. Laws apply. They can vote to change things.They agree or leave. "

And after all the controversy wrote on Mar 11, 2007 11:21 AM:

" this is the establishment clause. Are we going to have a state sponsered religion? Man, I hope so! Me an my Rastafarian brothas have been misunderstood too long! As they say a little ganja go a long way! Perhaps as a community THEY should set up a commission to understand US law and how it applies to them? "

Pro wrote on Mar 11, 2007 10:43 AM:

" Sorry But, You keep missing the point - the help is a much ( more) for you and I than anyone. What do you mean "representable?" You and I have a great deal of representation at in the government, with many state offices for the specific purpose of assisting us. "

To: Dunker wrote on Mar 11, 2007 10:22 AM:

" Why should I read a book when I own property in Monroe and Vernon counties and deal with the Amish on a regular basis? If the Amish want their voices heard, then they should vote. But they don't. It's just like that one person who always complains about politics but never votes. Three words: just shut up. "

sorry but I didn't miss anything.... wrote on Mar 11, 2007 9:16 AM:

" when these people become representable then they can have their own office. is there a state office for me? you? or any other separate group? as you stated they ask for nothing form the outside world, then why is this author asking for them? "

Pro wrote on Mar 11, 2007 8:54 AM:

" Deborah Morse-Kahn's point is effectively being proven with each anti-Amish post. It is my understanding that the Amish are self-insured. They pool their money and take care of their own health costs. When "regular citizens" don't have insurance the taxpayers bite the bullet. Please don't add to the misconceptions by stating them as truth. Get the facts. "

The real world wrote on Mar 11, 2007 8:51 AM:

" It is a hard world for everyone, but our legislature enacted a law a few years ago to give them specific rights when building in order to allow them to not meet building codes. I am afraid more money spent will lead to more bureaucracy and a higher debt. "

taxes vs costs wrote on Mar 11, 2007 8:24 AM:

" Amish pay some property tax, pay some income tax but how much is spent on them. They pay no monies for the vehicles they drive. How much damage is done to the roads? I don't know myself but I would think damage occurs from metal covered wheels. Amish receive free healthcare. I think rather than saying oh you have ten kids and only made 18grand last year you should get free health care. They should have to pay something. Because of their lifestyle their savings accounts are full. Mine would be too if I didn't have health insurance. Why did Kahn receive free publicity in the editorial section? If I owned a business could I tag my editorial comment with "EAT AT BERNIES?" "

Dunker wrote on Mar 11, 2007 7:37 AM:

" Uh...the Amish and Old Order Mennonites do pay income taxes, and are regular American citizens, who speak English, follow the news like the rest of us, etc. Please get your facts straight, and read some books on the Amish by Donald Kraybill. "

To Sorry But: wrote on Mar 11, 2007 7:30 AM:

" It seems you missed the point of the writing. Your veiw and attitude are the very reasons for the need of services to help create understanding. It is we, "regular citizens," who need the education and the help to understand the Amish culture and lifestyle. They ask for no control of the outside world, as you mistakenly state. How much do you know about the taxes they must pay? I pray for you to open your mind. Pro "

sorry but.... wrote on Mar 11, 2007 5:41 AM:

" their "needs" should not be a priority. When they start paying taxes and become regular US citizens they can shout out about rights. This is another example of the minority trying to establish control over the majority. I lump them in with illegal aliens. Sure they are nice people, mostly law abiding, but until they put in their part of income taxes they can remain separate. "


PLEASE NOTE: Comments on stories that frequently update through the day disappear with each update.
The comments above are from readers. In no way do they represent the views of the La Crosse Tribune.

Click here to report offensive or inappropriate comments. Please identify the comment you're concerned about, the story to which the comment was attached, the date of the comment and the person who made the post.

 Post a comment (150 word limit) »

Log In - If you have already signed up with The LaCrosse Tribune, please sign in now!
Member ID:
*Password:
  Forgot Your Password?
 
Sign Up - To encourage intelligent and meaningful conversation, The LaCrosse Tribune requires all commenters to register before posting comments. It's quick, it's easy, and it's free! Just fill in the information below to get started!

**Your Member ID and password will be required to log in. Your comments will appear under your user name.

Do not use usernames or passwords from your financial accounts!

Note: Fields marked with an asterisk (*) are required!

Create a Member ID:
*Choose a password:
*Re-enter password:
E-mail Address:
Year of Birth:
 

(children under 13 cannot register)

First Name:
Last Name:
Company:
Home Phone:
Business Phone:
Address:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
 

NEWSPAPER ADS

LACROSSE JOBS

TOP HOMES

HomeSeller
Top Homes


 
 
Dailies
La Crosse Tribune
Winona Daily News

Weeklies
Coulee News
Courier Life News
The Chronicle
Houston County News
Tomah Journal
Vernon Broadcaster
Westby Times

Regional
Inside Preps
My LIVE! Entertainment
Best of River Valley
Business Report
Healthy Living Today
Strictly Golf
River Valley Bike Trails
River Valley Blogs
River Valley Outdoors

Shoppers
Tri-County Foxxy

Marketplace
Newspaper Ads
Local Website Directory
7 Rivers Rentals
HomeSeller
Wheels Website
Outdoor Motors
Jobs

Portals
La Crosse NET
Winona NET

Classifieds
River Valley Classifieds

Links
Lee Enterprises

About Us | Classifieds | Contact Us | Terms of Use | F.A.Q. | Privacy Policy | Requests | Search | RSS | Videos | Advertiser Directory | Add to My Yahoo!
Copyright © 1997 - 2009 The La Crosse Tribune. All rights reserved.
Material from this site may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or distributed. A Lee Enterprises subsidiary.