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Published - Sunday, April 01, 2007

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Terminating parental rights: 'They took Jesse when he was born'


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Crystal Taylor has had two children with David Erickson.

“Had” being the operative word.
David Erickson swings with his 16-week-old daughter Chyanne at Powell Park near his La Crosse home Thursday as a supervised visitation monitor from Coulee Youth Center watches them. Erickson, whose ability to parent is in question by La Crosse County Human Services, visits Chyanne for about 7 hours a week and his 15-month old-son Jesse James for 4 hours a week always under supervision. PETER THOMSON photo

“They took Jesse when he was born,” said Taylor, 31, “and they took Chyanne when she was born.”

“They” — the La Crosse County Department of Human Services — got involved when Taylor threatened suicide while pregnant with Jesse James, born in December 2005.

Taylor’s IQ is between 69 and 71, well below average, according to county records. Growing up in La Crosse and Sparta, she has a long history of hospitalizations for psychiatric problems. Her current diagnosis is depressive disorder and borderline personality disorder.

More than two dozen times a year, a La Crosse County judge decides to legally sever the bond between parents and children.

Taylor and Erickson don’t want to become part of that statistic. They plan to fight to regain custody of Jesse James, 15 months old, and Chyanne, only 4 months old. Both now are in foster care.

But time is running out.

A hearing is set for April 17 on whether to begin terminating their parental rights to Jesse James. Another hearing in late May will determine if Chyanne is a child in need of protection.

“I’ve been doing everything I’m supposed to be doing,” said Erickson, who doesn’t understand why the county wants to put the children up for adoption.

“They took them because of our mental health issues and the disabilities,” said Taylor. “I don’t think that’s right.”

County officials said terminating parental rights is the last thing they want to do. But under state law, the county must pursue adoption for children in foster care if the parents aren’t able to provide a safe environment after 15 months.

“The idea is that we can’t have kids drifting in foster care forever,” said County Corporation Counsel Bill Shepherd, who handled child protection cases for two decades.

Taylor and Erickson are not married and live in separate units of the same South La Crosse apartment building. They see Jesse James and Chyanne several times a week in supervised visits, during which county social workers document everything that happens — every bottle fed, every toy played with, every diaper changed.

The world of child protective services is shrouded in confidentiality to protect the privacy of parents and children. Unlike other court proceedings, records are confidential and courtrooms are closed to the public.

Erickson and Taylor signed waivers authorizing county officials to release their records to the Tribune and talk about the case.

Those records raise many questions. Erickson disputes their accuracy, and recently convinced the county to videotape visits with the children.

Erickson came from an abusive home situation in Viroqua, Wis.; he and his siblings were placed in foster care in 1995. At 18, he was sent to Winnebago Mental Health Institute for two years, and has lived in group homes.

His file lists him as having “borderline intellectual functioning.”

Erickson disputes that, and said a doctor told him he was intelligent but needed Ritalin “for concentration. I know a lot, but I don’t always stay focused.”

He said he now is not on any medications, per doctor’s recommendation.

Erickson has had trouble with the law as well, though he contends he was “set up” by police.

He was charged with several crimes in 2002, including arson, after being accused of starting a fire in a Dumpster. He pleaded guilty/no contest to one count and was placed on five years probation. Two years later, he pleaded guilty to assaulting a police officer, and got more probation.

Erickson’s has had an on-and-off relationship with Taylor over the years. In January 2006, she sought a domestic abuse temporary restraining order but never followed up.

While both rely on Social Security disability for their incomes, state law says that can’t be a factor in deciding whether to remove a child.

County officials declined to discuss their case in depth because it is pending. But they did detail the process involved in handling child welfare cases.

Wisconsin is among 10 states in which most child welfare services are locally funded and delivered — in La Crosse County, the annual cost is $4.86 million, $3.15 million of which comes from local taxpayers. Elsewhere, states fund and provide child welfare services, according to Human Services Director Jerry Huber.

County child protection workers often get involved when someone from the public or another agency has filed a complaint that a child might be in danger.

A worker will investigate, and can remove a child from a home for safety reasons, said Megan DeVore, an assistant corporation counsel who now handles most of the child welfare cases.

In 2006, La Crosse County child protective services workers investigated 870 families with 1,793 children. Of those, 512 families were “screened out,” meaning no further action was taken, said Mary Ellen Prinsen, manager of child protective services.

The remaining 358 families received more investigation and oversight, resulting in 132 cases in which petitions were filed for a child in need of protective services, known as CHIPS.

If child protective services takes a child out of the home, he or she usually goes into foster care. The child also can be placed with a relative.

In some cases, the child may be returned to the parents in a relatively short time if the problems are corrected. In others, the county will move to have the child declared in need of protection.

The parents can agree to this, or they can fight it. In a few cases, there’s even a jury trial. DeVore said judges get regular updates on the status of the child and the parents.

The county is required to develop a “case plan” of steps the parents and county will take to reunify the family.

DeVore said the county’s goal is to work with parents to provide a safe environment for the children.

“Once safety is controlled, we look at return to home,” DeVore said. “We’re not in the business of trying to create perfect parents.”

The case involving Taylor and Erickson is proceeding on two tracks, according to the records. The county is working to reunite the family, but also to put the children up for adoption if Taylor and Erickson can’t take care of them.

“If reunification is not successful, we need to have a backup plan,” DeVore said.

Neither parent has a nearby relative who could take care of the children, though Erickson has an uncle, John Swenson, a 1984 Viterbo University graduate now in the Chicago area, who said he might be willing to adopt the children if the court terminates parental rights.

If the judge April 17 finds probable cause to terminate parental rights for Jesse James, the matter will go to trial within about 45 days, though that could be delayed if the parents’ attorneys need more time.

At the trial, the parents have the right to a 12-person jury. For parental rights to be terminated, DeVore said, the jury must answer yes to three key questions:

  • Have the parents failed to meet the conditions for reunification in the court order?

  • Has the county made reasonable efforts to provide services to the parents that were ordered by the court?

  • Is there a substantial likelihood the parents will not meet the conditions for reunification in the next nine months?

    DeVore, who has been trying these cases since 1998, said she can remember only three or four times when the jury has not agreed to terminate parental rights. In those few instances, it usually has been because of the last question.

    If parental rights are terminated, custody of the child is transferred to the Wisconsin Department of Health and Family Services.

    “At that point, we (the county) don’t have any say where that adoptive placement is,” DeVore said.

    If the parents voluntarily terminate their rights — which usually is what happens — visitation agreements often are reached with adoptive parents, DeVore said, though they’re not enforceable.

    DeVore and Prinsen said the county gets no benefit from putting children up for adoption.

    “I have to say it’s one of the hardest things for our workers to do,” Prinsen said. “They spend a lot of time and effort, and really wanting to reunify children with their families if at all possible.”

    A child protection success story

    When child protection workers take children away from their parents, it can

    create a lot of animosity.

    But the La Crosse County Department of Human Services also has some “satisfied customers,” said Mary Ellen Prinsen, who manages the family and children’s services division.

    “We have cases where the parents don’t want us to close them” because they appreciate the county workers’ help and support, Prinsen said.

    In March, a woman named Heather — no last name was given — shared her experience with the county’s Health and Human Services Board.

    According to the board’s minutes, the young mother of three children came from an abusive relationship; the children’s father was arrested for battery. She said she gave up a four-year college scholarship for the relationship.

    Heather was in the human services system for more than two years. The court system held hearings on the children, and Heather separated from the children’s father and was able to retain two of the children. The third child was placed with Heather’s sister.

    Though defiant at first, Heather ended up praising the assistance provided by child protective services, saying it helped her learn to be a parent and enjoy being a mom.

    Reid Magney can be reached at (608) 791-8211 or rmagney@lacrossetribune.com.
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    special friend to the mother wrote on Jun 5, 2007 4:25 AM:

    " sure crystal has made mistakes, but then we all have. no one is perfect and i have known crystal all of her life since she was born. she was a bright little girl and still is a very bright person, she would make a good mother and she would get all the help she needs from her own mom who resides right here in lacrosse. she does have family here and that wasn't stated in the article correctly. the story was more about david then crystal and before it was printed it should have "

    Hearings/April 17th-May: wrote on Apr 6, 2007 12:49 PM:

    " Does anyone know if the hearings referred to in this article are open to the public? If they are; all of the people who believe that David and Crystal are not being treated fairly can attend and determine for themselves once they have heard "ALL OF THE EVIDENCE" if these children would benefit from being with David and Crystal 24/7. As Paul Harvey says; it is nice to hear "THE REST OF THE STORY." "

    unohoo wrote on Apr 6, 2007 12:37 PM:

    " Money it's all about Money! I feel sad for the family but it costs the county to keep kids in foster care. If they are adopted the new family assumes financial responsibility for the children. There have to be other options. I don't think this is a judicial or social question. This is an economic question and we need to learn a way to provide more than one answer. "

    wait...what?? wrote on Apr 6, 2007 8:28 AM:

    " I cannot believe that people are saying the children were taken away from their parents unjustly and that the parents didn't get a chance to even try to be good parents...well, when a pregnant woman threatens suicide she is showing no regard for her child's life (not to mention her own). She had a chance to be a good parent and she blew it before Jesse was even born. "

    true or false wrote on Apr 6, 2007 12:54 AM:

    " If you have the power to take kids from a loving and caring home just so you can have a brand new S.U.V. or a $50,000 boat would you do that ? Than if you did that could you look at the parents and tell them that they arent wealthy enough to take care of them? think about what you would honestly do. sorry to say this but david has to pay for his own attorney and if he didnt love them children he wouldn't go through this hell. no matter what deal the county offered him and he turned them down. "

    children wrote on Apr 6, 2007 12:40 AM:

    " Yes I agree children do have the right to be safe. There are some parents in this town you call Lax that always get reported for abuse every day . just cause one of the family members is a teacher they get away with child abuse. You should look at how the county operates. they take kids away from great parents every day fact. bad parents get away with abuse. give crystal and david a chance to to prove themselves "

    Child Custody/Placement/Support: wrote on Apr 5, 2007 2:57 PM:

    " Has anyone considered the ramifications if the parents of these children were to regain custody. Since they are not together there would be a lengthy court battle concerning Custody/Physical Placement/Child Support. I can tell you from personal experience this is a very stressful and devestating experience, also sharing physical placement of a child with the other parent can be a nightmare for all parties. From what I know of the parents in this case I doubt they would be able to do this on their own no matter how many parenting classes they attended. "

    Rights wrote on Apr 4, 2007 9:05 PM:

    " Yes, disabled people do have the right to be parents, but children also have the right to be safe and nourished. If a disabled parent is able to keep their children safe, by all means they should be able to parent. If they cannot, their case should be no different that any other parent who is unable to provide a safe home. In my opinion, society should stop the abuse and neglect. This only leads to the spiral of violence. As far as this case is concerned, there is probably more to the story. It is illegal for human services to remove children just because their parents are disabled. Obviously, services have been provided for 15-months already. Unfortunately, due to HIPAA, we won't hear the other side of the story unless we serve on the jury. "

    Other's Play a Vital Role wrote on Apr 4, 2007 9:05 PM:

    " I saw a post from someone who said that they were a "good" parent. My guess is that in your view you were, however, someone had to report you for some type of abuse or neglect. This is how human services get involved. It is not just social worker's involved in cases, so they should not be getting a bad reputation for this. They are the initial point of contact, but others play a vital role. There are others involved...judges, lawyers, guardian ad litems, etc. In fact, parents have the right to go to a jury trial if they feel that they are "good" parents. There are also certain questions that the jury must answer before a parent’s right can be terminated. One of the questions pertains to whether or not the county provided adequate services to the parents. "

    Concurrent Planning wrote on Apr 4, 2007 9:01 PM:

    " I saw a post from someone who was complaining about being removed from their parent's home and being bounced around from home to home. This is the point of ...if a child is out of their home 15 out of the last 22 months an alternate arrangement must be made. This is concurrent planning....to stop what happened to you. "

    Shame on you wrote on Apr 4, 2007 10:03 AM:

    " It is ironic how quickly people chastise the county for trying to protect these children. But if a parent in the county harms their children, you are the first ones to ask where the county was in protecting them from their parents when they had a history of violence or threatening harm. I wouldn't want my nieces or nephews (or anyone other children I was close to) with people like Crystal or David. Just remember, the parents are not who matter in this situation, THE CHILDREN ARE. "

    Anna wrote on Apr 4, 2007 2:31 AM:

    " I have been raised by parents with some disability issues and they raised me like any good parents would. What if a parent has downsyndrom or is autistic or maybe has an eating disorder are they going to get their children taken away as well? People might think 'oh that's a different situation', but when it gets down to it it's really not. Taking away a child at birth give parents no chance in prooving themselves. it sounds more like a case of discrimination and not giving a chance. with a little help there is no reason they cant be good parents. "

    I agree, ONLY half the story wrote on Apr 3, 2007 9:22 AM:

    " A Birth Mother makes a good point, BUT it's been 15 months already. The mother obviously CANNOT follow the suggestions given, as she has yet ANOTHER child. As to BRAD, I am certain you don't have any of the FACTS either, because if you do, then the foster parents violated county and state privacy statutes and policies. I also agree, this is ONLY HALF the story; the county didn’t provide ANY facts in this case. "

    A Birth Mother Part 2 wrote on Apr 3, 2007 12:39 AM:

    " If this father is taught wrong from right and told what he needs to do to be a successful parent, and he does not follow throught with the reunification plan then that is no ones fault but his. The mother needs to take parenting classes, go to parenting groups, go to child care and parenting seminars and do what ever she has to do to keep her children. She needs to forget about this man or ANY man for that matter, or anything that takes away from her committment to her children. Leave all distractions alone and work day and night to get her babies back. Once they are gone, they are gone forever. Even if you find them one day, they are never the little babies you kissed good bye so many years before. "

    A Birth Mother wrote on Apr 3, 2007 12:34 AM:

    " I am not going to take sides in this matter as I dont have both sides of the story. I am going to say however that the mental abilities of these parents should not cause their children to be taken away. These parents need to be taught parenting and given community agency support. Then the issue of domestic abuse needs to be addressed. IF the father is indeed violent, he needs supervised visits with these children and should be monitored carefully while attending Anger Management Group. One relapse or missed meeting and it should be the end of his connection to his children. The rest will be in next comment from me. "

    There's always two sides to every story... wrote on Apr 2, 2007 10:14 PM:

    " Has anyone even considered that this story could be extremely biased? There's obviously a lot left out. Come on, do you really think that LaCrosse County Social Services goes out of their way to hurt families? In most cases, social services steps in when families are at their wits end. Their ultimate goal is to help families HELP THEMSELVES. Nine times out of ten, people blame the county for their problems when there are many other factors that need to be considered. Maybe we should all sit back and remember that there is always more than one side to every story. "

    Brad wrote on Apr 2, 2007 9:09 PM:

    " Everyone thinks that Chyanne and Jesse were taken away JUST because of the parent's mental condition. That is totally not true. My Aunt and Uncle are teh foster parents of them and there are many other reasons that the babies were take away. I think a lot of people are basing their opinions on just a few statements that were made. "

    concerned wrote on Apr 2, 2007 6:33 PM:

    " The La Crosse Tribune should be ashamed of exploiting this case. These 2 are admittedly cognitively impaired and even though you had the 2 sign a release of information, did they really understand the implications of going public w/ this??? Shame, shame , shame. "

    See it to believe it wrote on Apr 2, 2007 6:30 PM:

    " They have not taken away the kids JUST because of their mental illnesses. Unfortunately, SOME people's mental illnesses are severe enough to make them unable to take care of themselves, let alone children and that is the case here. It looks as if these two got "friends" to write in on their behalf, because anyone else would see the problem. "

    NAMI wrote on Apr 2, 2007 1:22 PM:

    " National Association for Mental Illness needs to be notified NOW. They fight on behalf of persons with mental illness to KEEP their children! La Crosse has a chapter: NAMI where ARE YOU? NAMI MEMBERS: PLEASE POST HERE if you want to stand up for rights of mentally ill people to be parents. I am a NAMI member too. I cannot speak for NAMI, but I say just having a mental illness is not a reason to take away children. As for those who advocate sterilization for mentally ill, it was done in the USA for years: a barbaric practice which was outlawed years ago! "

    depressed wrote on Apr 2, 2007 1:08 PM:

    " As a person with Bipolar II Disorder and two grown children I find it awful that Human Services takes children away from parents JUST because they have mental illness! NAMI should protest this! It is discrimination against persons with mental illness. Take Care, Iris. "

    chyanne and jesse wrote on Apr 2, 2007 11:43 AM:

    " Everyone keeps talking about Chyanne and Jesse and making it sound like they are being shuffled from foster family to foster family and that is not the case. The children are together and being wonderfully cared for by great foster parents. Chyanne and Jesse are in a loving, stable home and being given a chance at a normal life and childhood. "

    Look at the alternatives wrote on Apr 2, 2007 9:42 AM:

    " I think you need to look at what happens to the kids who 'go through' the LaCrosse county system. Please do an article on this and be sure to interview the kids in the group homes who have been with 5+ foster families! I would say that the childs best interest was never considered when the kids are put with the likes of some of the foster parents. Give those parents a chance to keep their family together, at least they are willing to try to provide a good home. "

    been there done that wrote on Apr 2, 2007 9:25 AM:

    " LaCrosse County Social Services..Gov't subsidized adoption agency..doesnt matter what the story is...bad place, bad people "

    come on wrote on Apr 2, 2007 8:25 AM:

    " I am a single mother too, marriage has nothing to do with this situation. Anyone can be a good parent in front of others, he is being documented, of course he is going to be civil. The county did the right thing, these kids deserve a chance in life and with these two disfunctional parents they would not get that chance. "

    Oh my goodness! wrote on Apr 2, 2007 8:11 AM:

    " Another case of guilty until proven innocent OVER and OVER by the wonderful department called Human Services. They are in the business of destroying families. Some are valid, some are SO not. "

    What a joke! wrote on Apr 2, 2007 8:02 AM:

    " Our child was involved with this "system" after 2 suicide attempts and being unable to keep her away from bad influences. In looking for help, we turned to LaCrosse County Human Services, which was the worst mistake we could have ever made. The system and their "social workers" managed to destroy our family in less than a year, and reuniting was not even an issue with them involved. They were more interested in pointing fingers at our family and accusing us, instead of insisting on couseling and helping the child. I cannot say enough about how crooked the "systemm" is. There is not enough room in this section to talk about some of them, and how they "helped" our family. We have no mental health or substance abuse issues in our family, so I can't even imagine what this poor family is going through. "

    Casa volunteer wrote on Apr 2, 2007 2:26 AM:

    " I just finished classes to become a CASA volunteer (court appointed special advocate)I met with Megan DeVore and one of our local judges. There jobs are not easy! And they are NOT out to take children away from parents.It is a team effort. If that family shows the "team" they are doing their part, the children are returned home. You can love to the deepest of deep, you can try with all the ability you feel you have within. But not all problems can be fixed. It is not that there "bad unloving parents" children just come first. WE ALL know that the right options need to be done. It is sad that this story is in public eye. As many see our county and court system as a bad thing. When really there just like us, doing their jobs to the best of their ability. "

    dont stick theese kids in system wrote on Apr 1, 2007 11:12 PM:

    " I feel that theese parents should have a chance. This county needs to be looked into they have been doing this for years now along with the law enforcement. I'll come foreward if I can get others to as well. thats all I got to say. "

    thats sad wrote on Apr 1, 2007 10:38 PM:

    " Thats sad to hear you say that get real. you put all your trust in the government. being a black man which at one time my people were not allowed to vote also my people if we got beat by the police and said something about it it's our fault for being black. David you keep up with whats wrong in this world. I truly believe David I believe that the system took advantage of them because they have a disibility and forced him to confess. "

    To Give them a chance! wrote on Apr 1, 2007 10:12 PM:

    " The county didn't take the children away because of their IQ or disabilities, but because of the violence and threats of violence. The county did not comment on this case specifically, but my guess is there was also evidence of neglect with the older child. These cases are in court before a judge and each child has been appointed a guardian ad litem to act on behalf of the child, so it isn't as if the county is acting unilaterally or without some very strict standards. It is very difficult, as it should be, for the government to seperate children from their parents "

    In support of foster parents and child welfare workers wrote on Apr 1, 2007 9:37 PM:

    " Boy some of these people make it sound like all foster homes are horrible and social workers just love stealing children. The truth be known most foster parents are wonderful, caring parents wanting to share their love and their homes with children in need. Check out the reimbursement rates for county foster homes, they certainly are not in it for the money. As somebody here stated, if something happened to these little children and they hadn't been taken into protective custody everyone would be placing blame on Human Services for not doing their jobs. Give them the benefit of the doubt, they can't discuss these situations because of confidentiality laws and, by the way, the court does appoint an attorney to look out for the best interests of the children. "

    Give them a chance! wrote on Apr 1, 2007 8:43 PM:

    " I have worked with couples who both have mental instability and have children. If a couple is determined enough and has the right goals for that child then they have all the love needed to raise a healthy and well rounded child. The moment that the state took these children away at birth they seperated a family that had the potential of being regular like everyone else. Yes there is the chance of failure but every family has that chance no matter what tehir mental state is. The county should have given the mother and father the chance to parent on their own...with supervision if needed...but at least let them be a normal family. SHAME ON THE COUNTY FOR JUMPING VERY QUICKLY TO BREAK UP A HOME!!! "

    Vel wrote on Apr 1, 2007 8:37 PM:

    " Ahh, the sterilization, hmm one person did that long with gas chambers. Even we the US did forced steriliations.. Well who eversaid to sterilize . I hate to say it but lets start wtih you and your family, we definately don't want any of your families dna from propagateing on this little ,blue planet. "

    Court of Public Opinion wrote on Apr 1, 2007 8:30 PM:

    " After reading these comments, I am glad that there will be a judge making the decision. I get sick and tired of these cases being tried in the court of public opinion. What is best for the child is not easily seen based on a newspaper article. That is what supervised visits are all about. Foster care isn't always the right answer, but returning them to a home environment that is not safe or the child's needs aren't met isn't either. The judge will decide what is best based on much more information than is provided here. But since people are weighing in with their opinions, here is mine. I question the ability of the father to take responsibility for his actions when he blames his legal problems on being set up by the police. You have to take personal responsibility before you can take responsibility for your children. "

    Court of Public Opinion wrote on Apr 1, 2007 8:27 PM:

    " After reading these comments, I am glad that there will be a judge making the decision. I get sick and tired of these cases being tried in the court of public opinion. What is best for the child is not easily seen based on a newspaper article. That is what the supervised visits are all about. Foster care isn't always the right answer, but returning them to a home environment that is not safe or the child's needs aren't met isn't either. The judge will decide what is best based on much more information than is provided here. But since people are weighing in with their opinions, here is mine. I question the ability of the father to take responsibility for his actions when he blames his legal problems on being set up by the police. You have to take personal responsibility before you can take responsibility for your children. "

    Patriot to SPM wrote on Apr 1, 2007 8:21 PM:

    " Why were you on their radar screen to begin with? Please elaborate. Don't forget to tell the other side of the story too. By the way, what brought you to La Crosse county, and from where? "

    to all coments wrote on Apr 1, 2007 8:13 PM:

    " Thats true you dont have to be married to be good loving parents.I'm a single mom. me and her father have her every other week and thats great when children know there real parents.Thats cutting down the parents when you say that they should adopt them out because your taxes go up. fact if costs you a hell of alot more money to keep them in placement.R A you sound bitter like you got hurt let it go man. "

    to all coments wrote on Apr 1, 2007 8:09 PM:

    " thats true you dont have to be married to be good loving parents.I'm a single mom me and her father have her every other week and thats great when children know there real parents.Thats cutting down the parents when you say that they should adopt them out because your taxes go up. fact if costs you a hell of alot more money to keep them in placement.RA you sound bitter like you got hurt let it go man. "

    Help these kids now wrote on Apr 1, 2007 8:07 PM:

    " I grew up in inner city Milwaukee with an alcohol-abusing and illicit drug-using father. If someone would have come into my life and took me away from that situation, I would've been more than grateful and been spared a lot of adversity. There were plenty of times in my life I prayed that someone would remove me from my parents care. Maybe these two kids can have a good life if they're adopted to a family that wants them and can care for them properly. Shared DNA alone does not make someone a "father" or "mother." "

    to Jake wrote on Apr 1, 2007 7:10 PM:

    " Being married doesn't necessarily make you a good parent. "

    Biases are showing wrote on Apr 1, 2007 6:28 PM:

    " It amazes me the number of people who feel as though this article gave enough information to form an opinion about whether or not this couple should have their children returned to them. The children deserve the best situation, but who can tell where that is from this article? People, your biases are showing. Perhaps it is time to examine why you feel so strongly against these individuals. Children need to be safe, and there are many individuals without disabilites who are not able to provide a safe home who are not automatically precluded from being parents. "

    sure wrote on Apr 1, 2007 6:24 PM:

    " so employed people are the best to raise children. thats sad of you to say concidering john gacy,jeffery dahmer, were employed and I'd never want them to adopt my three boys .. "

    Dear spm wrote on Apr 1, 2007 5:47 PM:

    " That would be child pedaling wich is a FEDERAL OFFENSE. I understand your wanting to remain anonymous, but please contact Mr. Reid Magney at the email address listed. If there is proof this occurred, then I want those responsible jailed. If not, then your simply blowing smoke. Reid, please let us know if this individual contacts you with proof. "

    a wrote on Apr 1, 2007 5:19 PM:

    " If these "parents" aren't capable of going to work every day (S.S. is their only source of income), how can they be expected to care for two children every day ? They weren't even able to handle their birth control ! Give the kids a chance and let an employed couple adopt them ! "

    Of course.. wrote on Apr 1, 2007 4:57 PM:

    " Once again the GOVERNMENT knows what's best for everybody! Yeah, right! "

    rights wrote on Apr 1, 2007 4:42 PM:

    " My friend David had to keep requesting to have his visits recorded to make sure that everything was being marked down properly .County kept telling him no for the longest time and just recently they said ok . I ask you if they didn't have nothing to hide they would have done that from the begining ... "

    About Patriot and the Rebuttal wrote on Apr 1, 2007 4:41 PM:

    " Patriot said that you can't have people who can't take care of themselves take care of someone else. The rebuttal involved handicapped people having their kids taken away. There is a difference between the two cases. People who are handicapped are very able to take care of themselves in most cases. I think the idea here is if the person is mentally unstable and unable to take care of themselves than you can't put other lives in their hands. If a handicapped person is mentally able to take care of themselves, just because the can't say walk doesn't mean they can't take care of themselves. Come up with a different reason why trying to help kids by taking them out of a dangerous situatioin is bad. "

    Get Real wrote on Apr 1, 2007 4:36 PM:

    " These 2 are not capable of giving these kids a stable home. Who will take care of the kids when one needs to go into hospital for mental health care and the other goes to jail???? The kids are 14 months apart, that is irresponsible in light of the situation. They have both had very long histories of multiple problems and what makes you think they are all of a sudden going to be able to change now, even if they really wanted to??? "

    babies wrote on Apr 1, 2007 4:33 PM:

    " thats real sad when the county takes little children fron there parents. I'd like to say that I feel dave and crystal would make good parents concidering most parents in la crosse county have move severe charges then david and crystal and they still have there children even with drug charges........ "

    let's Try This wrote on Apr 1, 2007 4:26 PM:

    " Since the Trib apparently has an agenda which include censorship of certain information, I hope they will publish this much sanitized post:This is a difficult issue which deserves societys' considerable attention. There are far too many children in this country who are receiving less than appropriate care by their biological families. The quick answers find us quickly on a slippery slope. IQ certainly is not a measure of whether or not a person is capable of being a successful parent. Many professionally successful, highly intelligent people are not emotionally equipped to care for a gerbil, much less a child. "

    Heather Jamesson wrote on Apr 1, 2007 4:24 PM:

    " I believe this family is being punished for having mental illness. Their parenting skills are being rated on their mental problems. They have not been given the chancr to prove their ability to parent. The county took the children from birth. How is that giving the family a chance? It isn't! "

    RIGHT TO HAVE CHILDREN? wrote on Apr 1, 2007 4:08 PM:

    " It seem to me that you only have a "Right" to have children if you can afford them and not make me pay for your "right" I'd love to have a "right" to have a Rolls Royce and let you pay for it! "

    spm wrote on Apr 1, 2007 3:46 PM:

    " I know what david and crystal are going through .I was raising my son for 6 years before I moved to LaCrosse county and as soon as I moved here my son was taken, even though I was a good parent. the county made me feel really bad that I didn't make a lot of money and kept telling me that your son deserves better than what you can provide. the strange thing was that one of the human services workers gave me $100 after I agreed to give my rights up "

    Everybody's a LOSER: wrote on Apr 1, 2007 2:30 PM:

    " Sadly giving this couple custody of their children would be a disaster waiting to happen. Given their disabilities it is unlikely they could care for children and deal with the stress that accompanies child rearing. If these people dealt with this stress in a manner that caused harm to the children then do you charge them with child abuse/neglect? How could children who are normal stay that way when the people raising them are so dysfunctional? "

    Jake wrote on Apr 1, 2007 1:41 PM:

    " To Les; yes it does make you a bad person. You should've been married before you had a child. "

    To CV wrote on Apr 1, 2007 1:12 PM:

    " Stealing More Children?? Really, did you just say that? I think you need to do more research. Oh yea and our profession gets bonuses for the more children we "steal" right? Give me a break. Social Services keep children safe and work to reunite families. Our job is not to "steal" children. Wow I can not believe how uneducated some people are in our community. That is why it is so critical to educate these people. However most of the time these people have very closed minds and our not open to being educated. An example...CV!!!! "

    Applauding the effort wrote on Apr 1, 2007 1:09 PM:

    " Having a physical or mental disability does not necessarily mean that someone would not make a good parent. Often times, it's just about the right support system. And for those who advocate sterilization? Let's not forget what happens when countries begin deciding that certain kinds of people are just not worthy anymore. This story did not give us enough information for anyone to even form an opinion. It certainly is easy to spout hatred and ignorance in this type of a forum, isn't it? I applaud these parents for staying actively involved in their kids lives. That's more than alot of parents without disabilities do! "

    Les wrote on Apr 1, 2007 12:17 PM:

    " To comment posters "child birth and birth control"... Those are the two most insensitive statements I have heard in a long time... I am a single male with custody..does that make me a bad person? "

    Child birth wrote on Apr 1, 2007 11:42 AM:

    " You should have to get a license to have a kid. That would stop alot of problems in this world! "

    Human Services plays a critical role! wrote on Apr 1, 2007 11:07 AM:

    " Raising happy, healthy, law-abiding, and society-contributing children takes a lot of work and commitment on the parents' part. If parents are not stable themselves due to drug or alcohol addiction, mential health issues, abusive behaviors, or even a lack of basic parenting skills, this outcome becomes next to impossible. Worse yet, the vicious cycle usually continues when those children grow up and have children. Although the local human services department may not be perfect, they are definitely trying to help make the long-term outlook for these kids much better. While foster care is not an ideal situation for children, it is still better than living with abusive or neglective parents. At least they have an opportunity to learn good behaviors and what loving relationships are all about. "

    I was taken from my home when I was 11 wrote on Apr 1, 2007 11:04 AM:

    " I will never forgive the authorities for doing that. This was in 1962. I was placed in a foster home where the "parents" were abusive and I was only there as a means of financial support and farm labor for this couple. Despite several relatives who were willing to take us kids in, the authorities already had their minds made up. Mother dealt with Child Services (then known as the Welfare Department) and was given two options: Relinquish parental rights or be charged with child neglect. Of course she took the easy way out. I am not happy with how the Welfare Department handled my case and even after 45+ years, I am not about to "get over it". "

    To Patriot wrote on Apr 1, 2007 10:26 AM:

    " "you can't have people that are incapable of taking care of themselves taking care of children" That is your statement. Does that mean that all handicap people should not have the right to have children? What depths of depression would you sink to if human services threatened to take your unborn child away? "Common sense" would suggest that less educated poor people can not afford the legal representation needed to fight city hall, leaving a purely qualified parent lost in the system. I find your parental requirement statement to be very irrational and not to sugar coat anything, irrational people should not have children. "

    poor babies wrote on Apr 1, 2007 10:10 AM:

    " It sounds like the father really wants his babies, but in the real world you don't always get what you want. Both parents have mental DISABILITIES, how can they possibly raise 2 kids. They could leave the babies unattended, or even forget where they left them. I hope the system doesn't take too long, those kids could be scarred for life if something isn't done soon. "

    Please wrote on Apr 1, 2007 10:05 AM:

    " Sad situation, but this couple cannot provide a stable home for these children. Infants are easy to care for, but what happens to them when they need more than feeding and diapering? And how many more children will they have? The county seems to be doing their best as far as the parents spending time with the kids. I wish the parents would let them be adopted, but they never will. "

    cathy wrote on Apr 1, 2007 10:04 AM:

    " That is great that the county is trying to keep these kids safe, but why not step in before it gets this far? If both parents are mentally unstable then why are these poor kids being brought into this world and having to go through this? There are so many people out there that want to have children and can't and would give them a good healthy home and then there are people like this that can't take care of them that keep having them. "

    A Good Parent wrote on Apr 1, 2007 9:47 AM:

    " Everyone knows the old addage... You need a liscence to drive a car. You need a liscence for your bike. You even need a liscence to own a pet... But you DON'T need a liscence to have a child. And then on the other hand... La Crosse County is NO gem either. In fact their failures in taking care of these types of issues are more than the public realizes. I have lived in many communities around the US, and this has to rank right up there with some of the worst I have seen (Hawaii being some of the worst in community support for social and mental human issues). La Crosse County is by far lacking in justifyable support for those in our community. Why don't you do a story on theat Trib!!!! "

    Children need to be safe wrote on Apr 1, 2007 9:33 AM:

    " These two parents can't even take care of themselves. The county is doing the right thing by providing the kids with a safe home. "

    R A wrote on Apr 1, 2007 9:12 AM:

    " There is no way children should be born to people who are not capable of caring for or raiseing them. Instead of planned parenthood encourageing abortion, there should be those who promote steralization, then they can do what they want with out the harm of bringing another person into the world to be abused or rejected. Many people feel this way but you can't say it, not politically correct!! "

    Patriot wrote on Apr 1, 2007 8:40 AM:

    " Not going to sugar coat. It really boils down to this; you can't have people that are incapable of taking care of themselves (and possibly suicidal to boot) taking care of children. Should be obvious common sense. "

    More Questions wrote on Apr 1, 2007 8:33 AM:

    " The first child Jesse is 15 months old. How is it the the mother has "done everything" and this child isn't home yet? We are only seeing one side of the story here. With one child already under a CHIPS order, why on earth would the mother have another? Let's get the whole story next time. "

    Birth Control wrote on Apr 1, 2007 7:54 AM:

    " Two words that could have prevented all this. "

    Law is the Law wrote on Apr 1, 2007 7:31 AM:

    " There could be a win-win situation with the right adoptive parents too. There always seems to be a relative that pops out of no where...like the long lost uncle that may not even know anything about this case. It can be a win-win with the right adoptive parents too. I know of a situation where the adoptive parents are local and still allow monthly visitation and as many phone calls as the birth parents want to make. I consider that a win-win situation. "

    cv wrote on Apr 1, 2007 7:30 AM:

    " not enuff space to voice what I think of LaCrosses HS, but what they are doing here is what they do best and claim its in the "childrens best interest" they are destroying yet another family and stealing more children. "

    From someone who floated in that system wrote on Apr 1, 2007 5:48 AM:

    " I was taken away from my parents when I was three years old and placed into foster care. I went through 21 different homes, orphanages and placements. I was not a troubled or problem child. When I was 18 years old I got involved with drugs and ended up going to prison. I was released after 3 years, met a lady, got married, had two great kids and 25 years later we are still married, our children are smart, responsible and turned out to be great adults. For all you people, who think that the welfare system is great, think again, it is not. Depending on what this mans "crimes" were it shouldn't automatically make him an unacceptable parent. Not being the shiniest apple in the bowl doesn't make it the worst tasting. "

    Tina wrote on Apr 1, 2007 3:22 AM:

    " I really think we should work at keeping families united. Of course, they need a safe situation. I agree with the above that they could all be in a group home and see how they do with their children. It is an especially hard thing when the parents want to be parents. I think we need to be really careful before terminating parental rights. Kids aren't always better off bouncing from one foster home to another. That does a lot of damage. "

    Question wrote on Apr 1, 2007 12:48 AM:

    " I can see supervised parental visitation for the children's father with his past record. But the mother falls into a more grey area. Isn't there some big-hearted couple ( perhaps empty-nesters with parenting experience) that can provide a home for both the mother and the two choldren? Why not place them all in the same foster family? It would take a lot to find the right couple, but it seems like a win-win situation to me. "

    z wrote on Apr 1, 2007 12:12 AM:

    " And if something terriable happened to these innocent kids, who would society blame? Exactly, the county. Keep the kids where they are safe. "


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