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Published - Sunday, October 28, 2007

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Some Amish say state permits intrude on religion


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BLACK RIVER FALLS, Wis. — For professed non-minglers, the Amish here are popping up in a lot of conversations this fall.

A small group of conservative Amish who have built modest homes in the town of Albion west of here believe the “English” — anyone who is not Amish — are forcing them to violate their faith by requiring them to get state-issued building permits. The permits, at least one supporter claims, “yoke” them with unbelievers.
“We have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And happiness is a house,” said Eric Gove, an Amish man and friend of several Amish homeowners who built their homes without building permits. “The idea that your friendly neighborhood building inspector can say you can’t live in this building just because he says so, well, we’re not interested in that.

“The simple answer would be to leave us alone,” he said.

For the town’s elected leaders, the few Amish who don’t believe in building or driveway permits are creating a bureaucratic nightmare, complete with misinformation campaigns, threats of legal action and heavy fines, and antagonism directed at the town’s building inspector.

“They think we’re picking on them, and we’re not; it doesn’t matter to me who they are,” said Rod Stenulson, the town’s building inspector.

“Someone is going to end up in court,” said Terry Schmidt, zoning administrator for Jackson County.

Out of compliance

The state requires building permits for all new one- and two-family homes before they can be built and certified by inspection before occupied. The permit means an inspector will check on the plans and assure the structure meets minimum safety standards.

The problems in Jackson County began in July, when the town of Albion sent letters to seven Amish men — two of whom did not actually live in the town and who were later dropped from the action — giving them 14 days to get appropriate permits. Non-compliance could lead to fines of as little as $10 and as much as $1,000 per day.

One of the letters was sent to Benuel L. Stoltzfus, who, like the others, was accused of building a house without a permit and of failing to acquire a driveway permit. He did not respond.

Another letter was sent Sept. 14, notifying a lawsuit had commenced and requesting relief in the form of fines and an order to keep Stoltzfus from “inhabiting the property.” They all had 20 days to respond.

On Oct. 10, Stoltzfus’ handwritten letter arrived. It said he had received a complaint from the town “alleging that my family and I are illegally residing in my family home. I do not understand.”

He is not alone.

The Uniform Dwelling Code, administered by the Commerce Department, is the law of the land in Wisconsin — no exceptions. If you want to build a house, you submit plans and get a permit before you build. The rules apply in the town of Albion, which has employed Stenulson, a town resident, as the building inspector. He is also the certified building inspector for nearby Trempealeau County and for other towns.

Fair is fair, says inspector

Stenulson, who said he has supplied Amish builders with code books and graphing paper at his own expense, said he is being criticized for doing his job fairly.

“They are saying it’s because of their religion, but to me it’s not,” Stenulson said of the objections he has heard from some Amish. “What people are saying is that it sounds like we are picking on them, but if I have to buy a new permit when I build, everyone else does, too.”

Terry Schmidt, the Jackson County zoning administrator, said most of the Amish in the county eventually get necessary permits.

“It can be a negotiation process, ‘If this, then this,’” he said.

A few in the town of Albion however, have created headaches for the local leaders, especially Robert Wyss, the town chairman.

He is flustered, he said, by the amount of misinformation going around.

Some have accused the town of requiring the Amish to put in paved driveways, or electricity and plumbing, conveniences most Amish eschew as contrary to their beliefs. Others say the town is using the permit requirement as a money-maker.

“I haven’t a clue about how that kind of stuff gets started,” said Wyss.

Wyss likes the Amish as neighbors and residents. “They build off the road, back and out of the way, they’re a quiet bunch of people and that’s fine if they want to be left alone. I say let them live the kind of life they want to live. There are few rules they have to follow, but other than that I don’t care how they live,” he said.

“What we seem to have here, is a crossing into an area where they don’t want to compromise,” he said.

The objections

Gove would agree with that. Like many of the Amish in Albion, Gove, 37, has lived here fewer than three years.

“Most of the Amish have gotten building permits, there is no objection to getting a building permit,” he began.

“But there are things a permit requires that we can’t do with a free conscience,” he said, adding that he is “not a spokesman” for all Amish.

Those include “granting a right of inspection,” because the inspector “goes places where he has no business going. We have a right to be secure and safe on our premises,” said Gove.

Some also object to signing the permit, Gove said, because it creates a binding contract but doesn’t provide “full disclosure,” meaning the way remains open for the “English” to change it.

He cited a verse from the Bible, in 2 Corinthians, that is a dictate of the Amish faith: “be not unequally yoked together with non-believers.” A permit, he said, is seen by some as creating that sort of bond.

By punishing the Amish for not getting a permit, the town is “compelling people to contract under threat and duress,” he said.

Gove’s view is that the few Amish who refuse to get permits should not relent, even though other Amish from different groups in the area have no problem with the requirement.

“Why should we give, if we are right?” he asked.

Their plight has drawn support from some residents, who questioned using the full force of the town’s resources against a few recalcitrant farmers.

“English” advocates for the Amish, Catherine and Stephen Dal Cerro, have written letters of support. Catherine Dal Cerro said Friday a meeting has been tentatively scheduled with a contractor to help the Amish navigate through the code book. Such an informal resolution might be acceptable to all, town officials suggested.

Who’s at fault?

Schmidt blames the state for what he called an unworkable, unfunded enforcement process.

“It becomes a state issue when the state passes the law that says all one- and two-family homes must meet UDC codes and must be inspected by a state-certified building inspector, and then they do not back it up with the proper enforcement procedure,” Schmidt said. “If the law is passed and it applies to all, then it must be enforced for all. And that is not happening at this time.”

The state, however, does not see it as a problem, according to Larry Swaziek of the Commerce Department, where he is program manager for the Uniform Dwelling Code.

He acknowledges, however, that because of the 2003 code changes, called the Home Safety Act, “probably what is happening now with enforcement is that across the whole state we are approaching more individuals out there (who) were not regulated before.”

The solution to that is letting people know their buildings have to be inspected and get permits before they build, something that has led to increased diligence by zoning officers, who admit they are probably not discovering every violation.

He said there hasn’t been a large issue with Amish resistance to the code.

“The district attorney may say that they have more important things to work on, and if we feel that is a real issue, then we will ask the Justice Department to address it.”

George Hesselberg is a reporter for the Wisconsin State Journal in Madison.
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 Comments »

30558 wrote on Oct 28, 2007 9:54 PM:

" Build a three family house. What ever that is. Just ask your local politician you will an answer you will not understand. "

The Real World wrote on Oct 28, 2007 8:50 PM:

" Hey spock, This is about private property rights that are guaranteed by our Constitution. If you are a member of the Amish community it is also about your 1st amendment. Believe me we are all going down if we don't start standing up for what is right! I haven't met you but You are a quality person, thanks for taking an interest. "

scottk wrote on Oct 28, 2007 8:15 PM:

" I would like someone to point out what exactly these inspectors are going to look for at an Amish house. Seriously! what are they hoping to find that is so freakin' life threatening? Why don't these inspectors go spend their time checking out all the "garbage dump" houses that those kids are living in around campus? I guess I'll be the first to say "If I have to get a building permit and the Amish don't... Oh well, no big deal!" Didn't your moms tell you that not all things in life are fair? "

spock wrote on Oct 28, 2007 8:10 PM:

" realworld I love the quote one of my favorites all time.Non smokers should take that one to heart but it doesn't apply here. They are not being singled out for special treatment they are being singled out for exactly the same treatment everybody else gets.Big whopping difference. I admire the amish, i think we could learn a thing or two from them but I think they are wrong on this issue. "

SavedByGrace wrote on Oct 28, 2007 7:16 PM:

" Not to mention, our country was formed by people seeking the freedom of following their religion and being able to worship freely in the manner they chose. I believe we should uphold this standard as long as people's practices aren't interfering or harming anyone else. "

SavedByGrace wrote on Oct 28, 2007 7:11 PM:

" Let's create a new religion to put ourselves outside of government rule? It's not as if they are only claiming this religious affiliation to get around the law. I think we should leave them alone in this area. We have building permits and inspections because we have a need for it to protect people our society--they pretty much have a whole different society that does not interfere with ours. "

Darwinism wrote on Oct 28, 2007 6:04 PM:

" This issue is NOT the Amish, it's the GOV. It owns your land which is why we pay property tax (quit paying, you'll see who owns it), it dictates what you can build and where (zoning) and how to build it (inspections). It regulates way more than this forum can take. The real question is do we change the system or conform to the exemptions? Let's start a new religion to put ourselves outside GOV. rule... The neo-nostics, higher power exists in all of us... "

happymom wrote on Oct 28, 2007 5:53 PM:

" That was uncalled for, and ugly. Unecessary, Marat. "

Michael Welch wrote on Oct 28, 2007 4:14 PM:

" Oh don't please do anything so 'drastic'! I'm sure you'll find SOMETHING to disagree with me in due (very short?) time! (MY form of 'socialism' does not seek intervention where no intervention is really needed...) "

happymom wrote on Oct 28, 2007 3:38 PM:

" Oh my Greater Power! Michael! This pains my fingers to type, but....here goes nothin'...YOU'RE RIGHT! Now excuse me while I go cut my fingers off with a dull knife..... "

Michael Welch wrote on Oct 28, 2007 3:09 PM:

" I'm not so sure that leaving these folks 'alone' (I mean they're still part of our um 'English' society anyway -- citizens under the constitution and so on) isn't a good idea. Obviously if matters come to some unforseen difficulty and especially create a 'public danger' the state IS obligated to step in as this is NOT a 'Christian' or theological government but a secular one (thank uh God!). Yet I'd refrain from intervening in a sub-culture not subversive (except culturally!) and one that after all minds ITS own business and renders to the 'English' 'English things'? Why seek trouble or troubling?... "

pcmiller wrote on Oct 28, 2007 2:52 PM:

" This sounds like a classic us vs. them senario and the "them" are the "wordly English". I grew up Amish and I've seen a perception in some Amish groups that the worldly outsiders have no right to tell these Amish what to do. So it's really a question of does the government have a right to require anything of them that inconviences or costs them something. This is really not about inspections and permits, but about the legitimacy of any governing authority. Of course these are also, in many cases, the same fringe Amish groups that will not associate with even other Amish groups, and consider them unbelievers as well. WI, for whatever reason, seems to have it's share of these more firnge groups, with theier isolationistic tendencies. "

Mack wrote on Oct 28, 2007 2:27 PM:

" Their 'pursuit of happiness' reasoning is ridiculous. This is about simple building permits. The process really does more to protect them from doing something stupid than infringing on any right. "

tmk wrote on Oct 28, 2007 2:12 PM:

" A lot of you talk about plumbing and electricity and septic. The Amish use NONE of these. They have an outhouse, they use lanterns and kerosene lamps, they use kerosene heaters as well as wood fires in their fireplaces, they get their water from pumps. Why then would they need these permits? The only thing to even be looked at is the shape of the house. A permit to put wood together??? Leave them alone. They do nothing to harm us. Only we, who live near them and know them, can understand. You "city folk" just don't get it. "

ToeJam wrote on Oct 28, 2007 1:11 PM:

" El americano tiene la ley, pero no los hace cumplir olvidan permisos "

Old_Fogey wrote on Oct 28, 2007 1:00 PM:

" It sure would be nice if I could do anything I wanted - unencumbered by concerns of what happens to my neighbors around me. I seriously doubt any member of the Amish community will go to hell after death because he took out a building permit. Imagine the "churches" that we could form, if our intent was to circumvent particular laws and regulations. "

HonestAbe wrote on Oct 28, 2007 12:44 PM:

" happymom, just because they aren't the only ones doing it, doesn't make it right. Back on topic, the govt. should have standards that people live up to, imagine the people that would be living in substandard shacks to save some money otherwise. That's just my opinion. "

The Real World wrote on Oct 28, 2007 11:46 AM:

" I don't believe that the government has the right to do many things it does. If a person wants to build a house for themselves on their own land, why should the government have the authority to tell them how to do it. I have no problem if they want to sell it later to require them to met the codes, but not when it is for their personal use. The constitution will back me up on that and so should you all. First they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists, and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. TThen they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me. "

happymom wrote on Oct 28, 2007 11:42 AM:

" Um, actually Abe, I can thing of a religion where beating your woman into submission is standard fare, but we can't talk about that because I'd be called a hater, and a racist, and ill-informed, and a bigot, and probably some names I haven't even thought of yet. No religious sect is perfect, Amish included, and abuse within the community does happen. But largely, wouldn't you agree that they are a good and admirable lot? "

HonestAbe wrote on Oct 28, 2007 11:13 AM:

" happymom, why so nasty? My first post was pretty objective. You are right though, I don't agree with their ways. Every year we hear of a few cases from the amish, of abuse, even though it's part of 'their way' and they think it's ok to do. In each case I've heard of, it's the dad and/or the brothers of some female that have abused them sexually, or beaten them into submission. Those are only the ones we HEAR about. I do not agree with their ways at all, what religion would condone such actions? Anyway.... "

happymom wrote on Oct 28, 2007 9:46 AM:

" Wow! Why so nasty, people? Many of the posts here reflect a deep animosity towards the Amish, even disdain by the 9:29 poster. I guess I was born a hundred years too late, but I too long for a life where the government doesn't have its nose in my personal affairs, dictating what I can and can't do with what I've created with my own hands. Don't we have bigger fish to fry? "

Marat wrote on Oct 28, 2007 9:39 AM:

" Perhaps we could give the Amish "gifts" of smallpox ridden blankets or infest them with plague infected fleas. After the rotten Amish are finally gone we could let the indians build casinos on their land. Just a thought... "

My Opinion wrote on Oct 28, 2007 9:29 AM:

" I live around the Amish by Black River Falls, and GREAT JOB by the inspectors to hold their ground. Their job is to make homes and dwellings safe for ALL people in the area. Don't forget, the Amish make their living by selling their goods to the PERMIT Purchasing ENGLISH!! A lot of them don't vaccanate themselves, sell food to the ENGLISH, and don't sanitize with hot water while cooking. It is the ENGLISH choice however to purchase goods from the AMISH, I DO NOT choose to do so. Their dwellings in our area are boderline safe and thankgoodness for the inspectors!Rgulations to curb the filth and dirtyness, for the people with the comments of letting the Amish get away with the no permits, have you lived next to them? Once you do so, you may change your mind! Thank you inspectors for making sure all are safe! "

nana3 wrote on Oct 28, 2007 9:22 AM:

" What will the Amish do when the government comes after them for income tax? They are seen doing remodeling and roofing on houses for "english" people, and their quilts and wood furniture sell for a nice price, do they report all of the income? I don't like paying taxes, it goes against my beliefs, but no one gives a hoot. Amish people aren't supposed to use anything modern, but I have seen many of them with cell phones. Why is it okay to go against their religion when it is convient for them? Maybe they shouldn't drive their buggies on public roads either. "

R A wrote on Oct 28, 2007 7:38 AM:

" "Be not unequally yolked together with non believers". The Amish have been left to live their lives in secret for centuries. WE have laws in this country that everyone must abide by and there should be NO exclusions in the name of religion. If I have to get a building permit, they should, If I have to get a drivers licence they should, If I have to pay taxes. they should. It is time folks. No exclusions!! "

The Real World wrote on Oct 28, 2007 7:37 AM:

" First they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists, and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me. Pastor Martin Niemöller "

Wheezer wrote on Oct 28, 2007 4:23 AM:

" HonestAbe hit the nail on the head. Thomas Jefferson and the rest of the founding fathers wanted religion and government separate for a reason. Anyone remember from grade school the things that were going on because of combining the two?! Remember reading about the witch trials, just for one example? The governement is supposed to see everyone the same, religion or no religion. Everyone must be treated the same. Some people even think that the Amish do not pay taxes, and that is not so. They pay taxes just like the rest of us. If they didn't, everyone would be changing to Amish! "

Wheezer wrote on Oct 28, 2007 4:15 AM:

" Re shkyhnds: listener didn't say anything about having to HAVE electricity, he said you have to have a licensed plumber and electrician...meaning if your building had plumbing or electricity a LICENSED person must put it in. And what he said was MANDITORY was a well and septic system, not electricity. This is how misinformation and rumors are spread...people like you read what they want to read. "

HonestAbe wrote on Oct 28, 2007 4:10 AM:

" Well, if the amish get special benefits, you're going to see every contractor start growing beards and wearing denim and claiming their new religion. Seperation of church and state people, I always thought that meant no matter what you believe in, the state just sees you as a person, period. I don't believe the amish currently are that true to their religion, you see them at menards, home depot, and auctions all the time! "

shkyhnds wrote on Oct 28, 2007 2:11 AM:

" I have an issue with building permits also. A person gets the loan for the land, makes payments on the land, pays property tax on the land, but is told what he can and can't build on the land he is paying for. That's not right. Someone needs to limit the control the state and local governments have on us! Maybe we need a "checks and balances" systemn with the state! This is getting out of control! The person buying the land really doesn't "OWN" the land! You are technically leasing it from the state! Which the state is over charging "RENT"!!!!!!!!!! what a scam! "

shkyhnds wrote on Oct 28, 2007 2:07 AM:

" listener, why did you have to HAVE electricity? I doubt the fact that it was mandatory! who told you it was mandatory? Maybe your wife! "

Big Spender wrote on Oct 28, 2007 1:36 AM:

" Why should the Amish, as Americans, be exempt from permit requirements while I am not? Carried further, why should churches in this country be exempt from paying taxes while I am not? These religious entities are swimming in wealth, not just from contributions but from church-run businesses as well. All forms of exempt status give the beneficiary an unfair advantage over the rest of us, plus these entities use services that the overtaxed must pay for. More than half of the property in La Crosse is tax-exempt, with lower-income folks providing a free ride for local church and business royalty on many levels--this is feudalism! Sorry Amish, I admire your work ethic, but you should stand in line like the rest of us. Sorry, Misters Weber and Hoeschler, you're no better than anyone else either; if you want government freebies, we want them too. "

listener wrote on Oct 28, 2007 12:58 AM:

" When are the Amish going to understand that they are living in the United States and have to follow federal and state law. When we built we had to have all the permits. A licensed plumber and electrician. A well and septic system were mandatory, why not for them. The standards for an occupancy permit should not be waived for a select few. "


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