Willie wrote on Nov 25, 2007 11:42 AM:
" For the record Brian, I did a tour there, now I am looking forward to retirement. What have YOU done stateside boy? "
BrianGSmith wrote on Nov 7, 2007 8:08 AM:
" Dear "Willie"...we have no moral obligation to remain, occupy and collateral kill Iraqi's. Morality would have us leave ASAP and let the Iraqi's create their own mode of government....self-determination. And if it is so freaking imperative to stay.....what the &%#$ are you doing Stateside boy? "
BrianGSmith wrote on Nov 7, 2007 8:05 AM:
" Well done ladies. Mission Accomplished. You've drawn attention and scrutiny upon Congressperson Kind's hypocrisy and enabling. Now does anyone know how Kind voted on Dennis Kucinich's motion to bring impeachment charges against Shamey...er, I mean Cheney? Remarkably, as of yesterday, the motion is still alive, buoyed by numerous Republicans who had voted in favor. Has the worm finally turned? If Kind and the rest of Congress won't get rid of Shamey then it will be up to us citizens to storm DC and do it ourselves. It's our RIGHT and our Perogative in order to save the sacred US Constitution. When Gonzalez called the Constitution 'quaint' we should have hung hi from a lamp post. "
RanDomino wrote on Nov 6, 2007 12:37 PM:
" The best thing we can do in Iraq is leave behind construction equipment, concrete, and steel. "
Willie wrote on Nov 6, 2007 10:38 AM:
" Do you really think Ron Kind will end this war? Do you really think staging an illegal publicity stunt by trespassing was an affective way of achieving that? That just probably annoys the people whose minds you want to change and only strengthens their resolve. Why not stage an event by camping outside all lawmakers offices, but find a way to do it legally. BTW will us pulling out make life better for the Iraqi people? Do you really believe that? We messed it up, now we have a moral and probably legal obligation in the international community to fix it. "
RanDomino wrote on Nov 4, 2007 8:17 PM:
" The point, as I see it, wasn't that trespassing is legal, but that it's necessary to break certain minor laws if it means helping to end a greater wrong. If this helped Ron Kind get the message that we're fed up with this war, then it was worth it. $192 to end a war sounds like a good deal. Moreover, under international law, citizens are OBLIGATED to prevent their countries from carrying out crimes against humanity! "
Willie wrote on Nov 4, 2007 10:36 AM:
" It is hard to argue that this war has become a tremendous waste of money. It is funny to me though how most of the arguments against it quickly depart from reality and turn into nearly unrelated philosophical political arguments. The reality is that we made a mess of Iraq and now we have a moral obligation to fix it. Where is your humanity? Arguments that try to turn this issues of a LOCAL protest into constitutional arguments that have ramifications on a national scale are purely ludicrous. Arguments that compare trespassing to the freedom of religion are baseless. You have the freedom to assemble, not trespass. Maybe the pro-war protesters should come into the anti-war protesters front yards or living rooms to get their point across. "
RanDomino wrote on Nov 3, 2007 5:52 PM:
" It's not that there have been tremendous wastes of money in Iraq; the whole invasion and occupation was ITSELF the tremendous waste of money. Unless the goal was to kill 1.2 million innocent people, turn another 4 million into refugees, destroy an entire country's economy, annihilate the Iraqi middle class, destroy the country's utilities and infrastructure, etc etc... we've been tremendously successful at that. Unfortunately those all fall under either the categories of War Crimes and/or Crimes Against Humanity. I think the reason that this war is still going on is that it's hard for us to grasp the sheer scale of destruction. "
stevegorescrg wrote on Nov 3, 2007 3:12 AM:
" To Andy K: Sure there has been horrendous wastes of money in Iraq; Congress and Mr. Kind need to ensure due diligence with overseeing the Executive Branch here. With the Dems in charge of both houses of Congress, this is beginning to happen- the blank check is over with regards to Iraq spending I would hope. We need to see results and I believe we are beginning to see some stability there. No one said that war isn't costly- Mr. Bush could have done a better job of explaining why this war was necessary and worth the cost, but that doesn't mean we don't have a responsibility to our soldiers in the field and to the Iraqi people to finish the job. By the way, when have I ever begrudged schools a few thousand dollars? "
V.O.R. wrote on Nov 2, 2007 9:35 PM:
" Too many 'right-wingers' in La Crosse? I think you need to have your head examined. A three-college town in a blue state? Doubtful you have ENOUGH so-called 'right-wingers' there. Bunch of young college-aged libs more like it. "
what_that_too wrote on Nov 2, 2007 5:25 PM:
" OK, a re-load fixed it.::: Nevermind. "
what_that_too wrote on Nov 2, 2007 5:21 PM:
" Say, what's wrong with this board today? The right border is obcuring parts of many posts.:::
Hey, Trib, wake up!!! "
what_that_too wrote on Nov 2, 2007 5:17 PM:
" The biggest problem with La Crosse seems to be that we have too many rocks.::: (All the better for so many right-wingers to hide under). We also have a lot of water.::: Too bad they don't try hiding under (in) the water. Then every time they open their mouth, part of the problem will disappear. "
HonestAbe wrote on Nov 2, 2007 4:02 PM:
" If you want to be taken remotely serious, dress up to protest, you all look like down on your luck college students doing this to be able to tell your grandkids "I protested the war" *rollseyes* "
HonestAbe wrote on Nov 2, 2007 3:59 PM:
" *knock on doors to get people with you, power in numbers* "
HonestAbe wrote on Nov 2, 2007 3:58 PM:
" Organize people. You look goofy, and who is going to take you serious? Heard rumor someone was banging on 5-gallon pails to get attention, lol! Get a permit for a parade, knock on doors and make a statement that gets the national media involved. I really doubt Mr.Kind is going to look out his window, see a few ranters out there and change his policy. I think you're doing this moreso for yourselves than real change. "
happymom wrote on Nov 2, 2007 3:14 PM:
" Very astute, Terminus. And how uninteresting that Michael would as usual predict malice on the part of an American contractor rather than suggest a protestor in Baghdad would more likely be removed of his head by a radical Muslim. "
Michael Welch wrote on Nov 2, 2007 3:03 PM:
" Anyone 'picketing' in the streets of Baghdad would no doubt be shot -- by Blackwater Inc... "
V.O.R. wrote on Nov 2, 2007 2:51 PM:
" I guess I'm still uncertain about the destruction caused by Bush? Good point Terminus - your observation pretty much exposes the media bias. Anti-Tax = Anti-Dem = Anti-Media. But Anti-War, now those cowards are heroes, well, heroes in the media's eyes anyway. "
Terminus wrote on Nov 2, 2007 2:46 PM:
" I find it interesting that the tax protestor in New Hampshire is described as “extremist”, “criminal”, “fringe”, and “dangerous”, while these anti-American ... er, I mean ... anti-WAR loons are labeled “activists” and “objectors” and their actions are called “civil disobedience.” "
RanDomino wrote on Nov 2, 2007 2:27 PM:
" happymom: Usually this is when most countries begin to hold Truth and Reconciliation commissions to compile a list of all the crimes, in order that the accused can be tried. V.O.R.: The only reason you think Bush's smart (and it's not that HE is, but that the republican party hires skilled PR people) is because he keeps winning, but he only keeps winning because people like you support him- that's a cult of personality. And how does any of that make up for the destruction that he's caused? "
Dean wrote on Nov 2, 2007 2:01 PM:
" Repubs have not won a war since 1865,They may have won the cold war but Bush is screwing that up too.Bush cant even win a war in Iraq a country without WMD,Wars,Deficet spending and printing money are all supposed to stimulate the economy,Try telling someone working for Chrysler that Or try selling a house I will call it STAGflation or repubINFLATION As Rush limbaugh said "Nener trust a draft dodger" "
DJ: wrote on Nov 2, 2007 1:25 PM:
" A spineless display by a rather cowardly bunch of basically non-producers. If they had any real courage, they'd be picketing on the streets of Bagdad, Tehran, and Ryhadi. Oh, I guess they's face more than a simple misdemeanor charge though. Something about the courage of one's convictions. "
V.O.R. wrote on Nov 2, 2007 1:17 PM:
" While, in general I support W in a lot of his decisions, i have also been critical of him as well. But the bottom line is this: Even though the lefties criticize him as one of the dumbest presidents in history, he and his administration has outsmarted the left on just about every single issue. And that must be maddening for them.
"
happymom wrote on Nov 2, 2007 1:09 PM:
" Neena, you're awesome. For the rest of you people who have spent the past several years and too many blogs fermenting in your hatred of Bush, what will you do when he is out of office? Will you spend the rest of your lives bemoaning the course of history? Will you still be shrieking about Iraq ten years from now? Twenty? Are you so wrapped up in your angst that you can't see anything but how miserable GWB has made you? "
RanDomino wrote on Nov 2, 2007 1:04 PM:
" V.O.R.: What if laws are unjust? Suppose there was a law passed that, let's say, banned religion. Would you follow it? No? But it's the law! My point is that we have a system with contradictions: The Constitution says treaties, such as the Geneva conventions, are law, but we have a President who has repeatedly ordered violations of such laws and yet has not been apprehended and tried for them. And don't think he should get off with a fine. "
V.O.R. wrote on Nov 2, 2007 12:59 PM:
" Another thanks to neena and all service people that have fought or died for this country that this blog is in English, and not German. "
Double A wrote on Nov 2, 2007 12:58 PM:
" "We all recognize our responsibility to ensure Iraq's stable & safe future"? I'm not sure I agree Steve-O. The people of Iraq have vastly different views than you and I and they're not suddenly going to change them and adjust to good 'ol American way of life. Let's work on stability on the homefront! "
V.O.R. wrote on Nov 2, 2007 12:47 PM:
" Thank you for your service neena. To LAX, yes, the protesters are tax payers (well, the adults may be) but that does not reserve them the right to break rules. I pay taxes as well and they go to maintain roads and fund the police force. But that does not give me the right to dis-obey the speed limits posted on the highways. GOP 2008. "
RanDomino wrote on Nov 2, 2007 12:46 PM:
" Nolyow: Your analogy is based on total fantasy. Pacifying Iraq isn't a 'job' that you just go and 'do'. If it were that easy, $800 Billion and several hundred thousand soldiers would have been more than enough a long time ago. The problem is that the insurgents are fighting our army BECAUSE IT'S THERE. The very fact that there is an occupation creates resistance to it. Over 90% of the insurgents are Iraqis- not al-Qaeda, not fanatics; taxi drivers, factory workers, engineers. Consider that NONE of the 9/11 hijackers was an Iraqi. This war was an insane mistake that we were lied into, and as a result of our leaders' greed over one million Iraqis are dead and four million are refugees. Those who argued for war when they knew or should have know better deserve to be tried in The Hague. "
neena wrote on Nov 2, 2007 12:37 PM:
" As a former soldier I feel it necessary to enlighten all you civilians on how we feel about all these people who support the soldiers but not the war: what a bunch of B.S.!!!! Ask a soldier, they will tell you. By the way, you're welcome, there are people in countries who don't have the right to harass people at work and "speak their mind". "
LAX wrote on Nov 2, 2007 12:34 PM:
" To dmm: Talk about ignorant. You just don't get it, do you? You let Bush ignore the rule of law and get away with literally murder but by God you're gonna punish those protesters aren't you! Those protesters are taxpayers who own and pay for Kind's office space and pay his salary. You sound like one of those "sheeple." Extreme situation call for extreme measures. Impeach Bush and Cheney. And get rid of Kind...he's useless. "
Nolyow wrote on Nov 2, 2007 12:14 PM:
" I agree with Steve. Being a representive of Western Wisconsin, Ron Kind can feel one way and by comments of his constituants, vote another. I support our troops, that means sending them what they need to get the job done. How would you feel if the next time we get over 12" of snow, we say it is too cold or dangerous for our snow plows to be out and not send them to clear the streets. I bet you would not want your government to leave you stranded when it was in their power to plow you out. You should also be ashamed of yourself for getting 13 year olds a jail record. No, you are probably proud. That is sad. "
RanDomino wrote on Nov 2, 2007 11:31 AM:
" Yeah, Muller, there's less violence- and all it took was crimes against humanity on a scale that would make Tamerlane proud. You have a lot of blood on your hands. "
dmm wrote on Nov 2, 2007 11:19 AM:
" Now there are two brilliant ideas within one sentence by LAX. Apparently Judge Marcou should dismiss charges in his jurisdiction based on the politics of the person alleged to commit the crime. This logic would certainly cut down on our jail population.
Next, was Judge Marcou recently granted a huge amount of authority over items national and international or is he still a local judge in Western Wisconsin?
Folks we don't have to like or vote for Bush, Cheney, Kind, Clinton, Obama or any of them. However, ignorant assertions on blogs do absolutely nothing to solve our problems no matter what our individual position may be. "
LAX wrote on Nov 2, 2007 10:55 AM:
" Hey, Random Annoying Bozo -- we hope that your comments are aimed at George Bush and Dick Cheney who have broken numerous laws including the FISA provisions and leaking the names of covert CIA agents among many laws! Not to mention the international laws they broken regarding torture and waging agressive war --for which we prosecuted the Nazis at Nuremburg. And don't forget Bush's "signing statements" that he thinks allows him to ignore any law enacted by Congress (representing THE PEOPLE) that he doesn't agree with. The biggest criminal kingpins and terrorists in the world are seated in the oval office and VP's house. Marcou should have dismissed the charges and issued a bench warrant for Bush and Cheney! "
Dean wrote on Nov 2, 2007 10:49 AM:
" PATIENCE-PATIENCE Five reasons the war is taking so long Halliburton,KBR,Bectel,Cheneys stock portfolio and Blackwater NOW JUST BE PATIENT "
LAX wrote on Nov 2, 2007 10:46 AM:
" How is it that taxpayers who pay Ron Kind's salary and pay the rent for his office can be found guilty trespassing on property that we own? Out with Kind next election! He's had long enough and hasn't done much at all except occupy a chair in Washington DC. And Marcou is a jacka$$. Meanwhile, impeach Bush and Cheney and find them guilty of the crimes they have committed including waging agressive war! How many more dead in Iraq today, tomorrow and the day after that and the weeks, months and years after that? Better get some more black marble for another wall of names in D.C. "
andy k wrote on Nov 2, 2007 10:16 AM:
" Wow, Steve. The phrase "penny wise and pound foolish" comes to mind, but I guess your true colors are showing. You begrudge our local schools and governments a few thousand dollars but have no problem with a war that costs the country billions of dollars every month, much of which has simply disappeared into thin air? Is this your idea of "responsible government"? "
Mack wrote on Nov 2, 2007 10:12 AM:
" Ron made an uninformed mistake when he voted for the war and justified it with a weak minded, overused cliché 'I voted my conscience'. There was enough information available to the literate public in 2002 to prove that Bush did not make his case for war. Cool headed leadership needs to rise above the hysteria and lead and Ron missed a huge opportunity. "
stevegorescrg wrote on Nov 2, 2007 8:30 AM:
" Has Ms. Vaughn ever considered that others might have written, emailed, attended town halls, and personally visted Kind's office SUPPORTING his postion on the war? Personally, I think Mr. Kind's position is quite responsible and in line with the majority of Americans' feelings about Iraq.
That is, while we all desire our troops to come home ASAP and Iraq to take responsibilty for their own security and government, we also recognize our responsibility to ensure Iraq's stable & safe future. After all, to paraphrase Colin Powell, we "broke it" by our decision to invade, whatever the reason; now we have a responsibilty to help the Iraqis fix it. The protesters have a First Amendment right to assemble and petition for redress of grievances, but not to trespass- Mr. Belzer's arguments were borderline ludicrous and rightfully rejected by the court out of hand. "
mullman71 wrote on Nov 2, 2007 8:26 AM:
" "After the hearing, Kind released a statement opposing how the war has been handled and stressing that Congress cannot continue to give the Bush administration "a blank check to pursue his failed 'stay the course' strategy in Iraq."
What planet is Kind living on? We are totally winning this war! The problem is that our amazing victories are not be publicized. That's why I started this web site: http://www.choosevictory.org/ See for yourself. "
radiogaga wrote on Nov 2, 2007 7:57 AM:
" Don't these people have jobs or are they the ones "waiting for better management positions"? What a waste...get a life and join the military first before spouting off. And a 12 and 13 year old??? Wow. "
dmm wrote on Nov 2, 2007 7:52 AM:
" A large group of protesters? I count 11 people in the photo. We had 13 at our neighborhood poker game and discussed some politics. Does the Trib want to take our picture and ask our opinion?
Also, of the brave freedom fighters who staged their perilous sit-in in Kind's office, apparently only 2 were adults. Wow. Now I can totally see why this incredible outpouring is newsworthy. I'm quite sure Ron Kind will comply with their demands by Monday. Maybe we should just vote on another local resolution to condemn the war. It was so successful last time. "
txman wrote on Nov 2, 2007 7:41 AM:
" I AM IN SHOCK! Bigspender is a Dem?! Next thing is we will find out Dean is a far left liberal who wants bigger gov't to control our lives - because we are all unable to take care of ourselves. "
Just some Dude wrote on Nov 2, 2007 7:29 AM:
" This Anita chick is a professor? This is what is wrong with this country. We have so called "role-models" standing in front of a bunch of vunerable KIDS telling them about what kind of a terrible country they live in.........their parents (that probably some way sacrificed or faught for this "terrible country) must be very proud of them. Don't look now, but the deaths in Iraq keep on decreasing, and no protester has saved 1 LIFE.....you must feeol proud of yourselves. I used to lean far to the left, until this war started and the protesters came out, what a joke, these idiots are the face of your pathetic political party........kind of hard to take you serious! "
tax justice wrote on Nov 2, 2007 7:26 AM:
" Nonviolent resistance is a recognized part of American History. We celebrate a national holiday in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Without nonviolent resistance we may be still have had segregated schools, lunchrooms, etc. The protesters were willing to go to jail, willing to pay the legal price of getting arrested. What the US is doing in Iraq is in violation of International Treaties that they signed into law. Treaties against the use of weapons of mass destruction, the illegal invasion of Iraq, the use of torture. When will Americans be strong enough to hold their own politicians accountable for their illegal deeds? "
Dean wrote on Nov 2, 2007 6:50 AM:
" Congress should not vote for 1 more nickel for that war,They should impeach Bush-Cheney they did more wrongs than B.J.s "
random annoying bozo wrote on Nov 2, 2007 6:27 AM:
" what a refreshing thing to know. i'm sure at ease knowing there are people out there who think that if they don't agree to something laws don't apply to them (right to trespass). i seem to recall another issue where it's ok to break the law too. illegal is just fine. we are a Nation built on laws, and when laws are ignored, how much longer will our Nation survive? i really believe the plug has been pulled, and our Society is slowly circling the drain, i hope there's still time to put the plug back in, but there has been so much lost already. "
Jaxx wrote on Nov 2, 2007 6:16 AM:
" All right Anita! I am a former student of Anita Zibton's and her class was incredible. I can honestly say that I may not have agreed with everything that she said, I loved her class and her willingness to stand up for what she believed in. If you have the opportunity to take a class with her, take it. "
Big Spender wrote on Nov 2, 2007 12:38 AM:
" "Protesters guilty of trespassing," well, I won't be guilty of voting for Ron Kind or Judge Marcou in future. Democrats, did you not hear what your own base told you last election? We voted for a reverse course. The Democratic-controlled Congress has the power of the purse, so, despite Bush's veto power, the Dems could have ended the Iraq Fiasco as they were voted in to do. I'm voting straight Green Party next time...no more spineless Dems for me! "
wakeup wrote on Nov 2, 2007 12:18 AM:
" Good lord! Ron Kind must have graduated from the George Bush school of "say what they want to hear, do whatever the #%@! you want." What, he thinks we can't look up his YES votes? You go, protesters. We need more people to wake up from their television stupor and ask where our $500 billion dollars are. "
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