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Published - Thursday, December 06, 2007

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Marc Wehrs: Some like a wall between church, state


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When a Tribune editorial used examples from Sudan and Saudi Arabia to argue that the American concept of separating church and state is an important one, visitors at www.lacrossetribune.com were quick to chime in.

And most who responded cheered the editorial, though one person complained the examples are so extreme they don’t have an application in U.S. political debate.
Here’s a sample of what Web site visitors had to say:

MidwestAtheist wrote: “Thanks for the great editorial. It’s about time that more people start realizing that this is NOT a Christian nation and was not founded on Christian values or the Ten Commandments like some will say. Are most citizens Christian currently? Yes. But that does not make us a Christian nation. That would be like calling us a white nation or a female nation or a brown-eyed nation — just because a particular demographic is in the majority, does not make us a (fill-in-the-blank) nation.”

Michael Welch wrote: “I doubt that we shall have ‘eternal peace’ with any elimination of religions; people tend to make a ‘religion’ of something else, say ‘the state’ re: Lenin, Hitler, Stalin and Castro. I propose a more ‘laid-back’ state and inclusive religious views, a state that provides basic needs but tolerates no charismatic ‘leader’ and never interferes with citizens’ rights to dissent or be free in their homes and lives to investigate governmental policies. The quasi-theocracy implied by many literalist Christians who post here (though some of them have ‘disappeared’ lately) would be detrimental to our constitutional rights, but most U.S. Christians do not want that either.”

Can a patriot fight the U.S. Patriot Act?

U.S. Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.) says yes, but not everyone at www.lacrosse

tribune.com agrees.

Here’s some feedback from Web site visitors who attached comments to a story about a recent Feingold listening session on French Island:

CaptnTony wrote: “It is essential that the government surveil for national security purposes such telephone calls, with or without a warrant from a judge, but with the authorization of America’s president and commander-in-chief, because 1) America’s Constitution is not a suicide pact, 2) terrorists have no right under it to privacy in telephoning, 3) an American’s usual freedom from warrantless surveillance of telephone calls from abroad does not prevail when the government reasonably believes the

telephone calls may involve terrorists plotting to attack America, 4) that freedom is hardly what the Founders considered ‘an essential liberty’ and 5) protecting America from attacks like the 9/11 attacks, or worse, is essential, and the time and attention needed to do the job as well as possible should not be wasted or diverted in order to follow time-consuming and, in such circumstance, needless, bureaucratic procedure when it is readily conceivable that terrorists will attack American cities with weapons of mass destruction, chemical, biological and/or even nuclear, and time is of the essence. ...”

Big Spender wrote: Reply to CaptnTony, re: ‘America’s Constitution is not a suicide pact’ ... no, but subverting it surely is. Totalitarianism is a far more dangerous threat to America than al-Qaida, even a nuclear-armed al-Qaida. Totalitarian ‘governments’ have killed a quarter billion people in the last hundred years —American gulags are not far off if we continue down our present path.”

mullman71 wrote: “Feingold couldn’t be more wrong about so many of these topics. I respect his courage to continue to take such strong stands on his wrong opinion, but politicians like him are dangerous for this country. He chooses to ignore the enormous threat to our nation from Islamic fascists by denying law enforcement the tools they need to protect us from these monsters. Then he chooses to reward those whose first act in our country is to break our immigration laws ... Huh?!”

It’s no fun to be snowed in

Some readers used reporter Dan Springer’s ice-and-snow Q&A to sound off about snowplowing and shoveling in the city of La Crosse.

I’m not going to share the details — you can check it out for yourself, if you wish, at http://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2007/12/04/news/02ice04.txt.

But I thought I’d use the opportunity to clear up a misconception I hear a lot: that complying with the city’s alternate-side parking rule means we shouldn’t get plowed in.

The purpose of not having cars on one side of the street is so that at least that side of the street can be cleared all the way to the curb.

Unfortunately, plows merely move the snow and, unless we don’t want traffic lanes cleared on the parking side of the street, people will get plowed in when we get significant snowfall.

Let’s just hope most of the snow this season comes in 2- and 3-inch increments — light enough that drivers can blast their way out sans shovels when we get “plowed in.”

By the numbers

Our pop culture poll question this week at www.lacrossetribune.com — who was your favorite member of the country supergroup The Highwaymen? — drew 1,518 responses.

Johnny Cash was the runaway winner with 44 percent, and Willie Nelson was second at 19 percent. Waylon Jennings was third 11 percent, and underappreciated songwriter and actor Kris Kristofferson was last at 8 percent.

Eighteen percent weren’t “crazy about any of these guys.”

Tribune online editor Marc Wehrs can be reached at mwehrs@lacrossetribune.com or (608) 791-8218.
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Richard Cranium wrote on Dec 17, 2007 6:55 AM:

" To Gunny:Just what exactly was George W Bush's military experience?In other words, what exactly qualified HIM to be commander in chief? What military experience did Dick Cheney have?What military experience did Donald Rumsfeld have? You want me to keep going? Grateful that we still DON'T have a President like Clinton? What are you smoking these days? After your "Kind" comments I suggest you do a little more homework before making such naive comments... "

Michael Welch wrote on Dec 7, 2007 11:34 AM:

" See the uh 'quality' of those who dislike Feingold? Yep it absolutely underscores my assessment -- Russell Feingold is a great senator and long may he be so... "

Gunny wrote on Dec 6, 2007 4:31 PM:

" Today there is an article in the paper about Ron Kind. He states he is disappointed with progress in the Iraq Government. Who is he kidding. Look at the progress in our own government. On the radio today I heard that our government was a train wreck. After over 200 yrs our own government can not get it right and Kind is putting down Iraq after only 3 yrs of having formed a new government after over 20 yrs of dicatorship. He needs to get a new job and stop trying to con the people of Wis. He has no military experience and doesn't know if the lessening of violence will continue. If he had been man enough to join the military he might have a clue about what is going on in Iraq. "

Gunny wrote on Dec 6, 2007 4:23 PM:

" On 9/11 we were attacked and brought into a War against terrorism. This is a war that we will be fighting for many years to come because of the type of people that we are fighting against. This was a simple question about supporting our Troops. Not about the fighting in Iraq or anywhere else. As usual, there are people around that would rather Bush bash not matter what statement is made. For almost 8 years we have been lucky to have a President that is not afraid to stand up and do what is necessary to protect our Country. Stop crying like a loser and be grate full that we don't still have a President like Clinton. "

Big Spender wrote on Dec 6, 2007 3:54 PM:

" To 'Gunny,' re: "For a Senator to not support our Military during a time of war" ....is this Iraq thing a war or an occupation? If it is a war, then Bush is therefore an incompetent commander-in-chief because it has taken five years and two trillion bucks to defeat 20,000 inept Iraqi insurgents. If it is an occupation, then Bush is therefore an incompetent commander-in-chief because it has taken five years and two trillion bucks to defeat 20,000 inept Iraqi insurgents. "

Big Spender wrote on Dec 6, 2007 3:48 PM:

" Heck, now Georgia guv Sonny Perdue is setting up organized government prayers--for rain! Yup, we now live in an age of government-sponsored rain dances! For more on the separation between church and state, try www.atheists.org "

Gunny wrote on Dec 6, 2007 2:59 PM:

" I have to agree with Krusty. I asked Feingold a simple question when he was here for a town hall meeting. Why did you vote no on a bill supporting our Military. He said it was monkey business. For a Senator to not support our Military during a time of war is unbelievable. It goes to show just how he is controlled by moveon.org and other non American groups. "

Krusty wrote on Dec 6, 2007 1:00 PM:

" Feingold is the biggest piece of garbage in the senate today, well, maybe he's tied in that position with hillary. Maybe he should consider changing his name to Hugo Feingold "

Michael Welch wrote on Dec 6, 2007 11:33 AM:

" Russell Feingold's the finest US senator of them all today, a great civil libertarian and a unique courageous voice -- that makes him 'controversial' but Americans SAY they want honest politicos who make clear their principles, who don't decide their basic 'values' according to a poll or only when they want a nomination for the presidency. Wisconsin's had a few great senators like the legendary Robert M. LaFollette, Gaylord Nelson and Irving Lenroot and one real stinker -- Joe McCarthy -- and Feingold's in the former 'class' fershure!... "


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