tax-me-more wrote on Apr 11, 2008 8:37 AM:
" The phrase, "government of the people, by the people, for the people," was part of the Gettysburg Address given by Lincoln in 1863. Ironically, Lincoln's belief was that there should be a CENTERAL government where states rights would no longer by dominant. So although he does get credit for the statement, Lincoln was actually the beginning of the end of such a government.
Today, the United States is VERY CENTERALIZED. The states continue to be given MANDATES from the federal government and thus pass MANDATES down to the local governments. A "government of the people, by the people, for the people" would SEND MANDATES TO the government, not get MANDATES FROM the government.
"Government of the people, by the people, for the people," has been dead for over one hundred (100) years. The time for revolution IS NOW! "
Donatello wrote on Apr 10, 2008 10:43 PM:
" As my mother said many times...
I don't care who started it....
But in law and justice We do care who started it!
The County...that's who.... "
Yellow media watch wrote on Apr 9, 2008 10:01 PM:
" DreDogg,
You are a misinformation idiot,
and a pro corrupt government wacko.
They were not there to "serve papers"
They were there to seize his property and
deprive him of his freedom and liberty...
it's called "arrest"
Only 10-20 percent of this country has fair
and effective chances with the legal system.
If you don't believe that then you were born on third base with the other silver spoon clods. "
wisCONsin wrote on Apr 9, 2008 9:22 PM:
" I can see more of this coming as government tries to take more and more from the taxpayers. Remember history and how and why this country was founded? We broke away from England because of high taxes and over control of government, sound like the road that the USA is now heading! Government should remain simple; keep law and order, charge reasonable tax, maintain freedom for and not try to dictate every aspect of its citizen’s lives, its citizens must be responsible for themselves and their actions!!! We don't need big brother babysitting us like this government in this once great land is trying to do now days! I do not condone Mr. Bayliss actions, but certainly realize the frustration in over taxation and the possibility of losing what you have worked all your life to attain! Did I hear somebody say a revolution? "
whatintheworld wrote on Apr 9, 2008 8:08 PM:
" Get Real - I agree that the shooting was not needed because the police didn't cause this mess. But, it was excessive force, and seemed to be started by the Sherrif somehow because of the ongoing problems. Either way, you still vote, attend meetings, and so forth, but the government still has lobbyists paying them off and their own interests in areas, such as Bush and oil, and the pork in the laws that do pass needs to stop. I'm sure you'd agree, but it seems anything we do doesn't do anything anymore. One day everyone will get fed up and there will be another revolution. Our founding fathers are rolling in their graves. "
mike tellier wrote on Apr 9, 2008 7:57 PM:
" " Watch my video about the situation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhJ0fi6YPJw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rhlAYTGNYI " "
free_speech wrote on Apr 9, 2008 5:07 PM:
" They have been DYING to use their assault vehicle. I watched them practice on a house in Vernon County that was condemned. "
George Hesselberg wrote on Apr 9, 2008 4:15 PM:
" Just a note in passing to "Krika," who wrote: " Why in the world would the media tell EVERYONE where this man's valuables are. Whether or not this info is on record doesn't mean you tell the whole world....THAT'S PATHETIC!!!!! What poor taste George Hesselberg & WI State Journal...very unimpressive, pitiful, tasteless, rueful, wretched & SAD! "
I might note I wouldn't have included the information about the "valuables," if the item was still accessible. The criticism is unwarranted. "
Get Real wrote on Apr 9, 2008 3:49 PM:
" Im Still Jackson-If you can't afford to live in your house I guess you move. It is happening to a lot of people right now who got in over their heads with zero interest loans with big balloon payments. It happens to people who go into nursing homes all the time. If you owe taxes it is no different than owing a bank. Sooner or later they want their money you either pay it or move. Or go to jail it is your choice. "
Get Real wrote on Apr 9, 2008 3:29 PM:
" whatintheworld- What are you doing that is making a difference? I go out and vote. I write the legislators representing us when something isn't right. I attend meetings to find out what is going on in our area. I don't take out a gun and shoot a police that are trying to do their jobs. I agree times are tough. The corporate greed needs to end, the war should end, and government waste should end but shooting at police isn't the answer. Let's not turn the United States into the Middle East.
"
mike tellier wrote on Apr 9, 2008 2:50 PM:
" Watch my video about the situation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhJ0fi6YPJw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rhlAYTGNYI "
whatintheworld wrote on Apr 9, 2008 2:18 PM:
" Get Real - warm house? Well, with the economy like it is, I'll bet it won't be very warm next winter because no one will be able to afford it. Xcel increasing rates, food prices going up, gas, everything, think about it. Quit being a sheep! I have no problem with paying taxes, but the amount they take out of my check each month along with everything else that is taxed is ridiculous. Being spent on a useless war that they promised would not exceed like 50 billion, wow, so much for that, and what year are we in? Not only that, we're giving things to the poor in other countries but can't help our own? Give me a reason to not be sour? Unless, of course, you're one of those people that make millions a year and get all these lovely tax credits from the government. "
DreDogg wrote on Apr 9, 2008 2:01 PM:
" Yup, civil papers can be oh so threatening. He was protecting himself from being served civil papers. You'd better pull out the gun then. Also, did you see the part about the IED's? I suppose those were strategically placed as well. Accept the papers and then go to court and win your case. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Apr 9, 2008 1:50 PM:
" GetReal: What happens if you cant afford to pay them? You could get hit by a truck any minute and left a cripple non productive shell of a person. What would you do if you had all the doors slamed in your face after they took you water away.Threatened you. Intimidated you?
Your living in a nice warm bubble you rent from the govt even though you own it in a best case senario that you can afford it.That could change and i hope you have good health insurance and a retirement porfolio because your gonna need it if you want to stay warm and fuzzy in your home. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Apr 9, 2008 1:44 PM:
" So he methodically shot the passenger side windshield several times but never shot the drivers side and Im sure there was only one man in the vehicle to reduce fatalities especially since the sheriff assumed he supposedly had wepons of mass destruction.. doesnt sound like he was trying to kill anybody to me. He was warning them. That is not intent to kill but instead a defensive move. "
Get Real wrote on Apr 9, 2008 1:42 PM:
" whatintheworld- There may be a bunch of us "sheep" living in the U.S.A. but at least I am going home tonight to my warm house where I don't have to worry about my cell mate having impure thoughts about me.
Yellow media watch- I am sure you tough militia type would put up a brave fight to get away with not paying your taxes until the first gunshot came through the window. Then your white panties would have been out the window surrendering so fast it wouldn't have been funny. You go ahead and fight the fight against paying taxes. Let me know when you get somewhere with that I will pay my taxes and enjoy my freedom. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Apr 9, 2008 1:36 PM:
" DreDogg: Neighbors witnessed the well destruction. Look at the windshield on the bearcat and you will see 4 or 5 well placed bullit hits and since the cops said it was Bayliss who did it that tells me hes a damn good shot and would had killed people if he wanted to. HE WAS DEFENDING HIMSELF and property not trying to kill anyone. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Apr 9, 2008 1:31 PM:
" Fact people shoot at police all the time a negotiator is sent in and most times it end peacefull or they kill the guy but NEVER have I heard of such an offensive against someone and burn down his property after ridilling it with real bullits then smoke him out and burn down his house but use rubber bullits on him?
Yeah they wanted him alive and I bet they beat the hell out of him in jail too and thats why they wont let anyone see him.He still has rights and somebody needs to check on his well being and lay eyes on him and by all rights he should be transfered to another facility pending an investigation into this incident. "
KRKIKA wrote on Apr 9, 2008 1:29 PM:
" Why in the world would the media tell EVERYONE where this man's valuables are. Whether or not this info is on record doesn't mean you tell the whole world....THAT'S PATHETIC!!!!! What poor taste George Hesselberg & WI State Journal...very unimpressive, pitiful, tasteless, rueful, wretched & SAD! "
wakeup wrote on Apr 9, 2008 1:24 PM:
" I don't condone violence. I agree that this situation got out of hand. Did the availability of the "Bear Cat" have anything to do with it? Will they send a Bear Cat after all these people, too? http://www.revenue.wi.gov/delqlist/alldlnqCityA.html "
DreDogg wrote on Apr 9, 2008 1:24 PM:
" Two questions for you all:
1. How do we know the county was directly involved in ruining his well? Because he said so? He probably did it himself and couldn't afford to fix it, so he conveniently blamed "the man".
2. How do you know he intentionally tried to miss the officers? Because he didn't hit anyone? He most likely tried to hit them, but was a bad shot. "
k.m. wrote on Apr 9, 2008 1:19 PM:
" TO:POGO; Good observation and comments. All these bleeding hearts try to justify Bayliss's unjustifiable actions. They are truly a bunch of unbelievable nitwits! "
whatintheworld wrote on Apr 9, 2008 1:14 PM:
" pogo1 is what we would call a "sheep" - those who don't do anything and sit back and take it in the rear, or a candy a$$, yes, that works too. lol
America is unfortunately full of sheep. If we had more damn wolves we wouldn't have the recession we're in either, nor would we have a loser president and government in general. Not all are bad, but most. "
Sully wrote on Apr 9, 2008 1:12 PM:
" Pogo, My posts would be exactly the same. Stupid, stupid, stupid way to handle a $5700. tax issue. I don't care how you look at it. My guess is if he really wanted to shoot someone he would have. Why did we risk all these people? He is a sixty year old man. He has to leave sometime. The Sheriff could not pick a better way to accomplish his arrest than involving, and risking all these people. I agree you can not shoot at the police even if you intend to miss. But, come on three Bearcats and five department for one 60 year old over $5700? I would bet that many of the officers at the scene felt the same way though they dare not speak out. "
k.m. wrote on Apr 9, 2008 1:12 PM:
" TO:DONATELLO; Using "the Nazi defense" is about the most ignorant argument a person can make. Mr. Bayliss may not have had means to pay his taxes but he did have choices. He chose his path, not the sheriff and not the county. Businesses, rich people and the Amish get served legal papers/warrants all the time, but when's the last time you've heard any of them shooting at the police serving the papers?
TO:IM STILL JACKSON; If Mr. Bayliss wanted to file a civil action against the county there are "civil defense funds" for people like him who don't have the money to hire a lawyer.
HIS INTENT WAS TO KILL PEOPLE! BOTTOM LINE, END OF STORY!! I GUESS SOME OF YOU BELIEVE KILLING A COP IS OK IF YOU'VE BEEN WRONGED BY THE GOVERNMENT! I REALLY HAVE NO OTHER RESPONSE FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DEFEND HIS ACTIONS! "
vince wrote on Apr 9, 2008 1:07 PM:
" pogo, you got it wrong calling the people that are willing to stand up to our corrupt government candy asses, people like you that bend over and take whatever the government dishes out are the candy asses. "
Yellow media watch wrote on Apr 9, 2008 1:00 PM:
" Pogo...go back to England...you are a TRAITOR! "
Yellow media watch wrote on Apr 9, 2008 12:57 PM:
" Funny ...you Monday morning quarterbacks and government apologists weren't there when the Posse armed to the teeth came roaring up the hill to take your livelihood, your property, and possibly your life. The county intentionally and cruelly crapped on him and ignored his pleas...he learned that there is no Justice, only a just-us system.
I would have fought back too against these aggressors.
They will come for you too...in due time. "
pogo1 wrote on Apr 9, 2008 12:50 PM:
" Most of these comments by all the bleeding hearts out there make me sick.Blame the government,blame the cops,but dont blame that poor old man.All of you whiners out there WAKE UP!!!the back taxes can go out the window,he crossed the line and shot at the cops you just dont do that.Personal responsibilty people nobody made him pull the trigger,I dont care about his well I dont care about the taxes,I care that he made his mind up to shoot it out with the cops and thats wrong big time.A well can be replaced taxes can be worked out.A humane life taken cant be fixed.Good job to the police for not killing him,they probaly could have if they would have wanted to.I cant imagine what all you candy asses would be posting then. "
audifan08 wrote on Apr 9, 2008 12:30 PM:
" Robert Bayliss and American Hero. "
Get Real wrote on Apr 9, 2008 12:14 PM:
" Are we moving back to the ole' west here. They dun we wrong so eye's a gonna shoot'em. Even if he didn't have money to fight the county with a lawyer he could have gone in front of the county board or talked to his state representative. If I think my bank screwed me can I just not make my house payment? Whether it is ethically right or wrong it is still the law we have to follow or I guess we can sit in jail. I guess Bayliss chose the latter. "
vince wrote on Apr 9, 2008 12:07 PM:
" so many of you are mising the point here. city tax, state tax, federal tax, property tax, tax on gas, tax on cigarettes, sales tax, tax this, tax that, tax my estate when i die, at some point enough is enough, and this guy apparently had enough. it's time for a revolution before they take our guns away and we have to beat them back with sticks and stones. "
PicklesPlease wrote on Apr 9, 2008 12:04 PM:
" Write you politicians people and TELL THEM what you want. Demand to be heard before it comes to something like this. "
PicklesPlease wrote on Apr 9, 2008 12:03 PM:
" The police can't just leave "Mr. Eccentric" happy as a clam in a property he doesn't pay taxes for. Yes it's tragic the way we treat citizens of this country...poor wages, no health care, have to work until you die, etc. But that doesn't give a person the right to open fire on police officials. If people here feel truly sorry for this guy and want to prevent others from such tradgedies he faced, then fight for affordable housing, free health care, and better wages. Stop whining and make a difference (non-violently). "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:53 AM:
" K.M. putting a bullit in his head would had been more humane then what the county and sheriff did to him. This didnt start on monday when he fired a warning shot it started when the county destroyed his well and cut off his water supply then refused to pay for it.Everyone says he should had took the legal route but how do you hire a lawyer in a civil suit against the county when you have no money?
He retaliated by not paying his taxes. So whos next the Amish? The feds are suing them as we speak for not paying property taxes and I dont here tanks and assault teams and helicopters in the distant assaulting them? "
down2512 wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:53 AM:
" I AGREE WITH SULLY! "
Donatello wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:52 AM:
" km,
Take your Nazi boots off, aren't you tired of kicking people in the teeth?
These people picked on this guy because they could not because they should.
Like someone else said, businesses and rich people get away with this all the time, and for a lot more $$.
He was defending himself against tyranny. "
whatintheworld wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:51 AM:
" I agree with "wakeup". Our government is getting out of control. Granted he shouldn't have fired at the police, it was not them that caused it directly, but rather the blame be placed on the county for causing this mess over this 7 year period. The county could have fixed his well as they should have since they destroyed it, still received their 5700 in taxes or whatever, still had a house to sell to someone along with some property. Now, the county just has some property littered with casings and no house, nothin. And spending MORE money with him in jail. Yay. "
wakeup wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:46 AM:
" This is the fate of many of us - rising, unpayable property taxes, unresponsive (or, in this case, destructive) local government, no job, poor health benefits (even for veterans) ... I have sympathy for the guy - I think there are a lot of people who are being nudged over the edge by increasing taxes and lower wages and services. What a shame. "
k.m. wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:31 AM:
" I agree with "Get Real", everyone else has to pay their taxes whether they like it or not, he had other option other than this one that HE CHOSE. I can't believe the posts here supporting his actions. We are a country of laws, whether we like them or not. Mr. Bayliss should count himself lucky he's not dead. Maybe that was his intent, suicide by police. "
k.m. wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:31 AM:
" The police went to serve a lawful warrant and were fired on. It doesn't make a damn bit of difference what they went there for, once they were fired on all bets are off. Over react? They could have put a bullet in this guys skull within the first hour of his actions. The local police departments have trained snipers that were there on the ready. They showed restraint and called in the Bear Cat / SWAT units to serve the warrant, protect themselves and remove Bayliss alive. Mission accomplished! The cost of the operation in relation to the amount of taxes he owed is irrelevant. Once HE pulled the trigger it had nothing to do with delinquent taxes. "
DreDogg wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:23 AM:
" I bet he was just upset because they came during re-runs of Mama's Family and he was out of chaw. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:19 AM:
" Theres been many battles over water rights in this country and the county threw the 1st stone literally when they destroyed his well.
He didnt have money for a lawyer and rather then pay they harrased him and targeted him and then destroyed him. Mr bayliss didnt decide this outcome and how this was gonna end the SHERIFF did. "
RTFM wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:19 AM:
" They send SWAT in for him not paying his property taxes, yet corporations all over the county/state get away with not paying their taxes on time. I don't see SWAT being sent to those businesses. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:14 AM:
" Sully the Feds have been notified as well as the major news media. This sheriff has definately commited political suicide.
Whos more crazy here? Yep its a no brainer! Obviously negotiation isnt one of the sheriffs strong points.This could had been avoided even after he fired the warning shots and should had been. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:09 AM:
" Of course this is the 3rd time they have posted this story Its the same article they buried earlier now have added the photo to and changed the header to make it more effective.Then they rearrange all the articles and recap the story but theres not one new word. Heres what I see: multiple bullit hits in a bullit proof windshield very accurately placed. No body was hit?Nobody has been hit but Bayliss. Obviously he wasnt shooting to kill but to deter. He didnt shoot at the officers to begin with he fired warning shots.If you hear the shot they wern't shooting at you!The guy is accurate. If you read all the stories that can be found under search bearcat and search bayliss, you will see many inconsistancies which is proof enough to me that the cops are lying about the facts. "
Sully wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:03 AM:
" So we are willing to have officers killed for $5700? Are you saying there was no smarter safer way to deal with him than this? I would like to see this investigated by outside authorities. It all seems real fishy , and excessive. "
Donatello wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:02 AM:
" How can it be "attempted first-degree intentional homicide" if you shoot at a citizen-controller bulletproof war machine?
The 60 yr old man undoubtedly shot at the bulletproof vehicle, not the occupants.
This heavy handed thug behavior is a sad trend for Amerika, and a big hard-on for "law" enforcement. "
Donatello wrote on Apr 9, 2008 10:55 AM:
" Not having the money to pay taxes shouldn't be a crime, who ever claimed he, "don't feel like paying them"?
It is nearly impossible to sell a piece of a landlocked triangular hilltop plot of land. It was there to be a homogeneous secluded piece.
Why didn't the thugs at county fix his water well, they are to blame for this.
They drove the guy insane, he just wanted to be left alone. What is wrong with that?
"
Get Real wrote on Apr 9, 2008 10:54 AM:
" Sully- Bayliss turned the situation into what it became. If he hadn't fired on the deputies none of this would have happened. Plus he bought the land in 1974. Don't you think the property value has gone up a little since then? "
Sully wrote on Apr 9, 2008 10:49 AM:
" Better hurry and get it fixed. I bet we have people in La Crosse County that owe way more than that. We should get on it right away if it was such a good tactic. "
Sully wrote on Apr 9, 2008 10:47 AM:
" Get Real. No I guess we should send Bearcats and swat teams. Then burn the house down. Oh yeah and lets put our officers at risk for $5700 too. That makes sense. "
Sully wrote on Apr 9, 2008 10:42 AM:
" " How sick and twisted is it that you can even owe that much tax on a property that cost $7500. "
"
Get Real wrote on Apr 9, 2008 10:37 AM:
" I constantly listen to the complaints of high taxes but now we should just let people who don't feel like paying them live on that property forever? He is lucky that he got to live there that long before they booted him off. I am sure there are plenty of people out there who have some grievence with the government but that doesn't get them off the hook from paying their taxes. He could have payed his taxes by selling some of his land and then kept the house. Or he could have went to work full time like the rest of us. He made his choices and now he will have to live with them. "
Sully wrote on Apr 9, 2008 10:35 AM:
" It was Bayliss who decided how the day would end???? At what point did you decide to give him control of the situation? "
DreDogg wrote on Apr 9, 2008 10:18 AM:
" I'm sure they will charge Bayliss for the repairs. "
Nick wrote on Apr 9, 2008 10:07 AM:
" So who's goinig to pay to fix the damaged vehicle? La Crosse county tax payers, or Richland? "
justanopinion wrote on Apr 9, 2008 9:53 AM:
" Too agressive, too confrontational, too much! "
CJ wrote on Apr 9, 2008 9:40 AM:
" Only in Vernon county can you have the right last name, sleep with underage girls, drink while on a no bar and not get in trouble hence the good ol boy network. I know where Really's point comes from......poor poor Law Enforcement to foolow through in the Hillsboro area. Kudos to the officers for not killing this guy though........ "
daddylonglegs wrote on Apr 9, 2008 9:24 AM:
" Why couldn't they get a friend or someone that knows him to go and get him to come out and talk. There are other methods besides calling in the SWAT team. I hope the government sits on this land and nobody buys it. Maybe some squatters will take up residence! "
whipthehorse wrote on Apr 9, 2008 9:06 AM:
" I wouldn't pay my propert taxes either, if the county didn't replace the well they destroyed. "
DreDogg wrote on Apr 9, 2008 9:01 AM:
" Well, now he's got three hots and a cot. "
vince wrote on Apr 9, 2008 8:39 AM:
" i applaud this guy for standing up against our government. the whole country should to stand up and do this, and no i'm not suggesting everyone start shooting at police officers, they were just doing their job. we need to put a stop to an out-of-touch and excessively corrupt government. taxation without representation. look it up.
"
really? wrote on Apr 9, 2008 8:34 AM:
" You want gool old boy and crooked city/county government ? Go live in Richland Center for awhile. Its not what you know there, its who you know. "
The Real World wrote on Apr 9, 2008 8:33 AM:
" My first comment is that I have a great deal of respect for law enforcement. I have a huge problem with the bureaucracy that perpetuated this event. The police did a remarkable job of not killing Mr. Baylis. The people I admire most in history are the people that fought against an overbearing government, and worked to preserve our future. This country is slipping away from our Constitutional rights. We would have failed long ago if we did not have a few people stand up and defend their rights. We need to enlighten the State Officials if we are going survive as a country. We must be diligent and work peacefully through proper channels. "