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Published - Thursday, April 17, 2008

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Water torture project draws attention at annual expo


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Luke Kleiber’s project was the talk Wednesday of the annual Science and Math Expo at the La Crosse Center.

The 13-year-old Viroqua Middle School eighth-grader wanted to see whether Chinese water torture — steadily dripping water onto a person’s forehead — worked. He had seen a television show he said dismissed it as a myth.
657 middle school students from 16 area schools and 107 volunteer judges participate in the 2008 Science and Math Expo 2008 Wednesday at the La Crosse Center. PETER THOMSON photo

He didn’t really want to torture anybody, Kleiber explained, and his four subjects knew they would not be tortured.

But what he found was their bodies responded as if they were being tortured, Kleiber said.

His four subjects — two boys and two girls — lay on gurneys while an IV bag on a pole dripped water on their foreheads every two seconds.

He measured the subjects’ heart and breathing rates, which indicated they were afraid and anxious. Kleiber also had ambulance personnel on standby, and the subjects could stop at anytime.

“They knew the water was coming, but they still felt the psychological effects,” Kleiber said.

He said water torture is cruel and inhumane, but his project showed it was 95 percent to 100 percent effective in producing the fear response.

The two girls, incidentally, did better than the two boys in the “torture” experiment, Kleiber said.

Kleiber was among more than 650 middle school students from the Coulee Region displaying projects at the 17th annual Gundersen Lutheran Medical Foundation event.

Three other Viroqua Middle School students — Glenn Kelley McCabe, Danielle Vold and Michelle Kent — wanted to know whether the girls in their seventh-grade class had better memory skills than the boys. They suspected so.

The subjects were shown 10 pictures and then asked to recall certain details. The girls won by a landslide.

“We found out our seventh-grade boys are not focused and easily distracted,” McCabe said.

Carleigh Klipp, 12, of Onalaska Middle School, tested reaction time among various age groups by dropping a ruler in front of them. She found what she predicted — “I just thought older people would have a faster reaction time due to experience,” Klipp said — though the 21 to 30 age group had the fastest reactions.

Lincoln Middle School eighth-graders Anna Whiteway and Lera Zamaraeva wanted to know whether certain types of music would influence heart rate. They didn’t see much difference when subjects listened to death metal, classical and R&B, but metal music increased the heart rate the most.

Science projects teach students to develop and test their own ideas, “rather than just the science that teachers are telling them is important,” said Mark Vale, a Logan Middle School seventh-grade science teacher.

“They are able to explore a little bit on their own,” he said.

Terry Rindfleisch can be reached at trindfleisch@lacrossetribune.co or (608) 791-8227.

General overview:



Chinese torture experiment:



Memory experiment:



Music and heart rate experiment:

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Eddie wrote on Apr 17, 2008 9:19 PM:

" Teiresias, did you read the same article that everyone else read? The one I read clearly stated that water torture is cruel and inhuman. There is NO "glorifying" at all. Your question about flaming cats is utterly ridiculous, as no school would ever allow such an experiment. Reporting on this student's experiment is important, as forms of water torture are being committed today - even by our own government. We need to learn about it so we can put an end to it. "

shady wrote on Apr 17, 2008 7:28 PM:

" There is NO difference between a cat suffering 3rd degree burns and a teenager getting water drops on the head. Come on people, don't you see? WOW!!!!!!!!!!! "

Teiresias wrote on Apr 17, 2008 3:25 PM:

" Simply reporting the facts and treating this as anything but immoral is glorifying torture.

Seriously, would the Trib report on an "experiment" with flaming cats as a simple science project?

There is NO difference. "

CJ wrote on Apr 17, 2008 2:17 PM:

" Rickey it's so reassuring to know you always get the 1st post you really need to get a life. Just curious are voting for Obama or Hillary??? "

OnaRes wrote on Apr 17, 2008 1:34 PM:

" rickey: Waterboarding and the chinese water torture are two different things. "

ryeguy wrote on Apr 17, 2008 12:18 PM:

" My concern is that there was an ethical review, which should be done whenever animals and humans are used for experimentation. I also think it would be important for minors to have parental consent.

Having said that, I think there is a clear difference between sitting there while one bottle of water is dripped on your forehead and being able to stop it by telling your friend to stop compared to being subjected to it randomly, with no rules and no end in sight. This was hardly torture. "

Eddie wrote on Apr 17, 2008 9:31 AM:

" Teiresias, exactly how is the Tribune "glorifying" this student's project? There were no efforts to praise or compliment what the student was doing. There were no attempts to praise water torture itself. Just what was so "glorifying" about the article? "

blogger wrote on Apr 17, 2008 8:33 AM:

" Not torture? "their bodies responded as if they were being tortured, Kleiber said. ... the subjects’ heart and breathing rates, which indicated they were afraid and anxious ... his project showed it was 95 percent to 100 percent effective in producing the fear response." Who wrote this article - someone from the White House George Orwell Project? Sounds like this junior "researcher" has a future with the CIA.
"

Mack wrote on Apr 17, 2008 8:29 AM:

" This is a good test of truth, rather than simply believing whatever we are told. "

pbn wrote on Apr 17, 2008 8:27 AM:

" Personally, I don't think the paper was glorifying anything but rather doing their job of reporting the news. It was the experiment of Luke Kleiber that people were talking about the most at the fair ~ and the paper just reported on it. Ignorance is not bliss. Just because you don't want to hear about it or read about it doesn't mean it isn't happening. "

Teiresias wrote on Apr 17, 2008 8:03 AM:

" Wow. The Tribune is glorifying a teenagers experimentation with torture!
How would the Trib cover a teenager experimenting with setting cats on fire?
Lets look at history. The Nazis "experimented" on the Jews to find out all kinds of interesting medical facts.
So, Tribune editors, does that justify glorifying the information that was gathered? "

rickey wrote on Apr 17, 2008 6:25 AM:

" Waterboarding is the favorate of Bush and Limbaugh "


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