notme wrote on Jul 12, 2008 9:34 AM:
" We've been "tuned" in for quite some time. 48 states allow carry, and NONE of them has ever considered repealing their carry laws. There has NEVER been an incident where a permitted individual who was lawfully carrying was shot by an officer or shot an officer. Kind even said the fear tactics are unfounded, but Welch still refuses to accept the facts. "
Phil OBates wrote on Jul 11, 2008 8:24 AM:
" Michael,
Just because a citizen (who isn't a cop or in the Armed forces) is armed, that doesn't make them dangerous. In fact, armed citizens are actually safer than unarmed citizens. Only left-leaning liberal cops would be afraid of armed law-abiding citizens. "
Michael Welch wrote on Jul 10, 2008 12:24 PM:
" This decision is obviously NOT 'the last word'; it will excite numerous law suits indeed and it MUST be 'clarified' and I suspect modified by the court eventually. In the meantime we will taste some that Scalia 'pudding' and find out just how tasty or toxic it is eh?... "
mossberg590 wrote on Jul 10, 2008 12:29 AM:
" It interests me, once you have taken the "arms" from the law abiding. Who will be left to protect you from the people who have the "arms" illegally. Hmmm? The police, I think not. You "law makers" and I mean the ones who wish to take the "arms" away,are also the ones tying the hands of our police. You promote electronic monitors, half way houses and looking the other way so many times that sooner or later, some one dies. Then again, your not turning the criminals lose in your back yard, are you. You find a place for them in ours. Then you want to take my gun away. I will leave this country before I let you do that. You got my freedom of speech, my freedom of religion, and now you want to disarm me. Over my dead body. This not 1934 Adolf. "
notme wrote on Jul 9, 2008 6:17 PM:
" How is it "more dangerous" for police officers? Show me where police officers are in "more danger" in the 48 states that have carry laws. Even Ron Kind stated your fears are unfounded. "
notme wrote on Jul 9, 2008 6:14 PM:
" Read the DeShaney decision. It clearly states that the government is MORE obligated to prisoners than to the public, I provided the specifics.
People didnt want mixed race marriage, but here it is. Californians didnt want same sex marriage, but here it is, people didnt want desegregation or affirmative action, but here it is. Mr. Welch, you support all of these, but not our innate right to self-preservation, thats called hypocrisy.
If the government cannot be sued, then the government has no financial responsibility. Obviously we cannot jail the government, as that would impose an even greater burden than financial on the part of the government, and as we now agree there is no financial obligation on the part of the government to protect life and property, what obligation is there? "
Michael Welch wrote on Jul 9, 2008 1:19 PM:
" You cite no particulars of these cases but obviously a municipality IS obligated to protect life and property to its best ability BUT it cannot be 'sued,' just as the military cannot be, for crimes that nonetheless occur. Individual corruption is illegal too. It CAN be prosecuted. Police officers don't look forward to a citizenry generally armed because it is more dangerous for them as the 'front line.' The supreme court's ruling WILL HAVE to be clarified AND I think modified; people don't really want 'more guns' available without strict supervision. So as Ronnie Reagan used to say 'Stay tuned!'... "
notme wrote on Jul 8, 2008 5:00 PM:
" I cited four examples (actual case law) of where the courts have held that government (police) are under NO OBLIGATION whatsoever to protect the public. As you are/where unaware of these cases I'd have to say your comment reeks of "palaver" and "ignorance."
Further, even if they (police) were obligated, there simply aren't enough police officers. I expect you are correct Mr. Welch; the government (police) wants ALL citizens to be disarmed as that makes the public easier to control. "
notme wrote on Jul 8, 2008 4:47 PM:
" Many states have specifically precluded such claims, barring lawsuits against State or local officials for failure to protect, by enacting statutes such as California's Government Code, Sections 821, 845, and 846 which state, in part: "Neither a public entity or a public employee [may be sued] for failure to provide adequate police protection or service, failure to prevent the commission of crimes and failure to apprehend criminals." "
notme wrote on Jul 8, 2008 4:47 PM:
" McKee v. City of Rockwall, Texas
A woman claimed she was injured because the police refused to make an arrest following a domestic violence call. She claimed their refusal to arrest was due to a city policy of gender- based discrimination. In that case the U. S. District Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit held that "no constitutional violation [occurred] when the most that can be said of the police is that they stood by and did nothing..." "
notme wrote on Jul 8, 2008 4:46 PM:
" Freeman v. Ferguson
The police chief directed his officers not to enforce a restraining order against a woman's estranged husband because the man was a friend of the chief's. The man subsequently killed the woman and her daughter. "
notme wrote on Jul 8, 2008 4:46 PM:
" DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services. (right her in Wisconsin)
The Court in DeShaney held that no duty arose because of a "special relationship," concluding that Constitutional duties of care and protection only exist as to certain individuals, such as incarcerated prisoners, involuntarily committed mental patients and others restrained against their will and therefore unable to protect themselves. "The affirmative duty to protect arises not from the State's knowledge of the individual's predicament or from its expressions of intent to help him, but from the limitation which it has imposed on his freedom to act on his own behalf." "
notme wrote on Jul 8, 2008 4:45 PM:
" Warren v. District of Columbia
Three women sued the District of Columbia for failing to protect them, but D.C.'s highest court exonerated the District and its police, saying that it is a "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." "
Michael Welch wrote on Jul 8, 2008 12:28 PM:
" No supreme court is going to 'rule' that the government is 'under no obligation to protect' its citizenry -- this is palaver and a fool's argument for the most gullibly ignorant. IF there is a 'correction' or 'clarification' of this unfortunate ruling (and I think that will become inevitable) it will be public and local LAW ENFORCEMENT that leads the charge. Police officers DO NOT want masses of folk 'armed and dangerous' 'out there.' The ruling was five-to-four so a President Obama could indeed have some effect and maybe candidate Obama will garner more nervous cop votes than not this fall... "
notme wrote on Jul 7, 2008 6:12 PM:
" You are correct here Mr. Welch, a liberal president would have appointed liberal judges who would rule that the government is under NO OBLIGATION TO PROTECT us, and removed our ability to protect ourselves.
That is why this bias liberal article is incorrect and why we must all do our part to ensure we do not end up living in an Obamanation. "
Michael Welch wrote on Jul 7, 2008 11:54 AM:
" This one ain't a-gonna 'go' any time soon folks so if you want more 'liberal' interpretations by the supreme court the answer is to vote for president the candidate likely to appoint the more liberal justices -- which would of course be Obama... "
PHIL OSIFER wrote on Jul 7, 2008 8:50 AM:
" What other of the first 10 ammendments of the Comstitution would you have repealled? Once you start on the first 10 or "Bill of Rights" note it says RIGHTS not privilege the next one's become easier to dismantle "