The Real Paladin wrote on Aug 2, 2008 4:40 PM:
" " I'd like to see some healthy debate on this topic at http://couleeregiononline.com/ It's a non-commercial website for folks in this area to discuss just this sort of thing. " "
Chip wrote on Aug 1, 2008 5:11 PM:
" What does it mean if someone is on the list twice? Do they owe both amounts, or is the data corrupted and being double counted? "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 31, 2008 10:49 AM:
" Oh and the best part of it all is the ex made sure everyone knew I was a deadbeat dad and never exercised my visitation and didnt pay my CS and thats why she was on welfare and sadly many believed her including our child since I only worked sporadically when I could health permitting and never got to see her.Well the truth finally came out and it was one of the hardest thing to do watching our daughter find out the truth about the mother she adored and trusted.
There relationship suffers to date because of it. SAD huh? "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 31, 2008 10:39 AM:
" Oh and lastly and leastly in the systems eyes shame on me for meeting the right woman(20yrs now) and having a family after my first marriage OBLIGATION and raising a step child giving her a father she would had never had whom we never saw a dime for.They suffered also from all my money going to the ex who contunually blamed me for her quality of life from having to live on welfare again her choice.Aint that AMERICA Baby home of the FREE! "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 31, 2008 10:34 AM:
" Compile being injured, unable to maintain employment and having CS threatening to throw you in jail all while in a continuous battle for visitation that was won by me several times over all to be fruitless while watching my child be damaged by PAS (Parental Alienation Syndrom) while the court stood by blindly failing to enforce its own visitation orders while holding there hand out for CS. I been through HELL and the system damaged my child and we survived.So everytime I hear "ITS ALL ABOUT THE CHILDREN"I wanna go puke. Lifes good now because I made it that way by never quiting and fighting those parasites to the end.Its only money! "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 31, 2008 10:27 AM:
" I was injured on the job and a shady lawyer screwed me out of a settlement by selling me out. The docs took 5 years to put the disabilty in writing allowing my SSDI quarters to run out forever barring me from recieving bennefits untill I went back to work and replaced them.(not happening) I could file for SSI but it was based on household income unlike SSDI which if awarded would had given monthly payment to my other 4 children whom lived with me and my second wife and my first child the CS was for along with medicare. My current wife makes too much money so they continually deny me benefits. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 31, 2008 10:18 AM:
" As soon as my obligation to the state of Mn was fulfilled my child was 18 and it was suppose to end the order guess what? Yep in 1990 they started a recoupment program as part of welfare reform and all that pass through money was to be recouped from the NCP not the CP. They hit me with 10,000.00 in welfare recoupment obligations with interest to the state of MN and it had to be paid of before the CS order could be vacated.They said because my childs mother was on welfare(again her choice totally healthy) it was MY responsibility not hers. I had to pay them no way out of it per Mn rules and guide lines. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 31, 2008 10:12 AM:
" Heres the twist. I fullfilled my obligation to the state of Mn and paid them off in a lump sum.I had won a prior reduction hearing in 91 to the amount of 200.00 a month.Every time I made a weekly or mothly payment the first 50.00 of that payment was called pass through money meaning the state did not take it from the ex to offset the monthly cash paymentthey gave her in welfare money so I paid weekly so she could get the whole 200 without penalty to her welfare check. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 31, 2008 10:10 AM:
" MN only allows for a current reduction going back one year or to the time the first petition was made to the court for a modification for reduction.I had them and not only did I win I reduced my debt by 25,000.00 to a workable order.had I not made the original request I would had only got a reduction for one year and that is Gospel. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 31, 2008 9:58 AM:
" Katie: Your senario hit me very close to home. I was injured in 1989 and left unemployable I immediately asked the MN courts for reduction and was denied. I spent the next 15 years fighting to stay out of jail and get a workable order all the while being denied visitation by the ex who although had a high school diploma, decided to live on welfare HER CHOICE while living in a house daddy bought her that she paid for with taxpayer money.I gave up on lawyers after being sold out twice and went ProSe. I learned how the system worked and although I always paid something I was falling way behind with what was ordered. "
Katie wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:30 AM:
" What sucks is when you see your parent on that list and you know that they haven't had ANY money to pay for anything in the last 15 years. It doesn't matter that my sister and I have both been over 18 for years now, that my father has always been loving and supportive, that the judge didn't take his changing finances into mind, that he hasn't been able to work for a few years due to serious illness.. it doesn't seem to matter. Deadbeat dads are one thing- but to go after people who are amazing parents and have gotten the shaft from the judicial system..that's just cruel and a waste of time. "
laxreader wrote on Jul 30, 2008 6:59 AM:
" Another example, a man got custody of his daughter, still paying child support, mom is no where to be found. Who do you think is getting that child support?: "
laxreader wrote on Jul 30, 2008 6:57 AM:
" Time and time again I hear of, or see stories that the mom is on welfare in another state and collecting a fat child support check every month as well. I think that should be a crime, I believe, even as a mother of 4 that those receiving child support should be made to work or at least attend school. Why should the NCP pay for the CP to live, to pay for the kid, fine, but to pay for the CP to live I find unfair and should be a crime!!!! I have a friend who's daughter lives in another state, NY, they go by the NY standards in cost of living and he lives in IA, pays $800+ a month in support, meanwhile mom doesn't work, doesn't go to school, nothing but collecting welfare, system is f'd up!!! "
nikki wrote on Jul 29, 2008 2:42 PM:
" I agreed Jackson that there should be some kind of scorecard review but there isn't. He have no problem paying CS and not against the CS but when it comes to too much money to taken out when he have almost none left when just working 1 job and he just have to work another job in order to meet the living standard. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 29, 2008 1:56 PM:
" Niki:Your husband situation is a classic tell tale example of whats wrong withthe system.It asserts his exs rights for her while placing road blocks in his path to visitation making him hold her accountable instead of the court holding her accountable.There should be a visitation scorecard reviewed evey 6 months or anually and the results should need to be explained by both parents at a annual review.They keep better contol and track of criminals on probabtion then they do parents of children in the CS VO arena.Life is a chess match a series of anticipated moves.His ex is anticipating he wont do anything.So far shes right! "
nikki wrote on Jul 29, 2008 12:13 PM:
" He don't have supervise vistations, and by court order he have a right to see them on school breaks with every other holidays and weekends. So every court ordered she already voliated everything and he could go against her but like I said before he had no money left over to pay the lawyers. She makes more money than my husband's income. So the systems need to look over both incomes not just the NCP's incomes. My husband's CS is almost 1,000/month and it the point where it's too much. "
nikki wrote on Jul 29, 2008 12:02 PM:
" It's upsetting him that he cannot be alone with them just one on one instead the mom there. They are old enough to be by themselves and my husband won't do anything to harm his children. He wanted to see his children and he felt like he is a part time father and failed to his children. I told him it not his fault and you try everything you can to do and try be the father you can. "
nikki wrote on Jul 29, 2008 12:01 PM:
" My husband could fight against his ex but he couldn't afford the lawyer since all his CS out of his paychecks. His oldest is almost 18 and he have two more to go, which in part we are happy that helps out our financial situations. He don't want to do this in front of his children of all the fights, so he just let it go over the years. One of his children asked why he couldn't spend time with them, it's hard to tell them the truth when they were younger since the mother refuse letting him spend time with them. The last time he spend time around school ages then when they were teenagers, their mom watched like a hawk and follow them around to make sure my husband not doing anything. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 29, 2008 9:49 AM:
" Some states now use denying visitation as a reason to change custody, so all I can say is DOCUMENT EVERYTHING and FIGHT those visitation order(VO) violations in court!And they wonder why some NCP's dont pay.I know 2 LEGALLY seperate issues where one doesnt effect the other right? Failure to pay CS does not allow the CP to deny visitation and denial of visitation does is not a reason for the NCP to not pay their court ordered CS if you are having problems go back to court! Ironically back to John Barnas and this story, how much money do you think he had left to spend on Lawyers? NONE! This is whats wrong with the system it creates a financial stranglehold underminding its own rules and GUIDELINES! "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 29, 2008 9:42 AM:
" Yes just as some NCP's figure out the system and refuse to pay CS so do some CP's figure out if they deny visitation its very rare that anything happens to them for violating the order. It took a year of showing up on time for me and calling the sheriff from a local payphone to prove I was in that little river town so I could get a hearing and watch the ex get her hand slapped and when push came to shove with the revised order and I asked the cops to arrest the ex for violating the visitation order he said "Im not gonna drag your ex out of that house in handcuffs kicking and screaming in front of your child and if I did what kind of visit would you have with your child being traumatize?" He was right! "
nikki wrote on Jul 29, 2008 8:42 AM:
" The whole system is so sad and it creating problems with the state and parents. My husband have three children from previous marriage and he struggle paying child support and never got to see his children cause the mother says no. He ended up working two full time jobs in order to pay child support for one check and other check for living. He still have rights to see the children but the mother is creating problems that harm the children's well being to have relationship with their father. "
caring father wrote on Jul 28, 2008 11:12 PM:
" how about a father thats trys to spend time with his family and cant because the mother says no. since the mother says no, i have to pay support and i don't get to spend the time that i should with my family. "
Just Commenting wrote on Jul 28, 2008 4:19 PM:
" Anne Jungen, do your research before writing articles like this! It's a shame to see such poor reporting in the local paper. This article is obviously written as very one-sided and has many glaring mistakes. You should be able to put the entire story together from the Trib's OWN archives. "
Kennedy8413 wrote on Jul 28, 2008 12:04 PM:
" To all of out, there the was a system put in place in 04 that takes the number of over nights each parent has with the kid/kiddos both of thier wages CP and NCP Then puts a fair value for the childs care. It allows for both CP and NCP to maintane a home for the kids. The problem is that most counties in the state refuse to use it. The Child support officer in Sauk County told me they had never heard of it, I called the state and was told that all county have it if they choose to use it. Last night when I went to the web site it was on it had been removed. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 28, 2008 11:01 AM:
" to Chris: Its not really one organization there are many and they use places like lawyers.com message threads (awesome site))started by a LaCrosse lawyer who moved it to Seattle back in the mid 90's. Originally it was prarielaw.com then became part of Martindale-Hubbel's Lawyers.com. These threads have convince lawmakers to change some of the rules and guidelines in the support/custody /visitation arena.You can google "fathers rights groups" and find a wealth of info there as well but look out for the extremists ect. Like all online info you have to sift through and deceminate whats real and hype, but joining in on the message threads or joining one of many of the parental rights orginizations is the first place to start.The people I work with get alot of info and input from these places and its basically from the front lines in the trenches. "
down2512 wrote on Jul 28, 2008 10:44 AM:
" The issue of child support is more personal than a blanket 17%, 25%, 31%, and 34%! We have family court for more than establishing custody / visitation. This case illustrates how drastically economics change for the payor, and the court commitments should change accordingly. Decisions in custody and support should be reviewed yearly (by a paper notice of change form sent from the family court) followed by court activity or not depending on the responses from parents. It's not rocket science! It's family matters gone to the justice system. I guess Barnas got an okay deal. But really adult children- do you think your nonpaying, noncustodial parent should still be held accountable for what you lived without? Unless of course the welfare system was used, that money and only money should be repaid-not food stamps or medical, or housing. "
chris wrote on Jul 28, 2008 9:48 AM:
" Jackson; My husband would LOVE to be a part of your organization. How do we get a hold of you? "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 11:41 PM:
" Another one of the slanted sloaps of the playing field is that if your paying the CP directly and there is an order it will be considered a gift and is not considered meeting you CS obligation unless you get a receipt stating it clearly is for CS. This is why the centeralized funds were established to protect both the CP and NCP.Sometimes even a reciept will not get you credit if your ordered to pay through the court. Remember an order is just that ,an order and remains in effect until a JUDGE says different or modifies it. Anything outside that is considered a violation and not following the order.If your not ordered but pay anyway save every reciept forever if you dont you can find yourself paying again later if an order is sought including back support.! "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 10:05 PM:
" Had John broke his back and been unable to work he would owe 300,000.00 and the system does not allow for that unless a modification to reduce is filed and since he didnt know he could there it is. I have had CSE lie to me and lie to me some more and although they cannot give you legal advice, they sure will go out of their way to mislead the NCP while protecting their vested interest in the CP collection order.
Rule #1 NEVER RELY ON INFO FROM THE OPPOSING PARTIES OR AGENCIES.
RULE #2 See a lawyer you cannot afford not to. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 9:59 PM:
" Btw I know John Barnas personally and you wont find a more stand up guy.He did the best he could with what he had and had he stayed togeather with his wife I doubt the quality of life their family would had enjoyed would have totaled even half of what he still owes and has paid to her.THATS WHATS WRONG WITH THE SYSTEM!It wasnt fair and just but instead treated him like a deliquent credit card holder and burried him in interest and penalties.He fell back on his mechanic career to provide most likely laying out a small fortune in tools required to do so just so he could provide.No credit for that though! "
aggie wrote on Jul 27, 2008 9:56 PM:
" People, I worked a full time job at a place I absolutely hated so I would not be on welfare. I raised my two children from my ex husband by myself for years, while he had a hard time paying $50 a week child support!! I never went out unless it was one of the rare times their Dad took them for a visit, and I never drank, smoked, did drugs. After work on Friday's I would cash my check and go home. Day care just about killed me, more then $50 a week. Any help I may have gotten from the local food pantry was needed, and my kids always came first. And there are plenty like me!! "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 9:44 PM:
" mls3: what RMlips means is had you used your crystal ball more accurately and forseen the future and the alcohol and drug habits and personality changes in you childs father you would still be togeather paying for everything while he uses and abuses.What an idiot!
Yes your better off from the sound of it. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 9:39 PM:
" RMLips: Your the typical sterio typer thats made the ignorance what it is. Whether you know it or not i guarantee you do or will recieve some type of taxpayer assitance or offset at others expense and if you dont now you will when you need medical care and when your old and cannot care for yourself.
Get over yourself IT ISNT ABOUT YOU!
The subject is CS not welfare!
READ the thread I doubt you have. "
Read My Lips wrote on Jul 27, 2008 9:39 PM:
" If you would have made a better decision in the past, there wouldn't be the "other party to pay." "
mls3 wrote on Jul 27, 2008 7:16 PM:
" Seems since I work, I pay for welfare as well, so it's not just you. BTW, as a CP, The State of Minnesota charges me a percentage for the dollar amount they have to collect from the NCP. Just doesn't seem right to me, if we could trust the other party to pay CP we wouldn't have to go thru the state. "
mls3 wrote on Jul 27, 2008 7:11 PM:
" R.M.Lips.... are you implying we are all collecting welfare and you have to support us?? for your info. I do not collect welfare,never have. I work full time to support my family and am damn proud of it. Yes I collect around $700/mo from the ex, which is much less than we had coming in when he lived here, but we are way better off financially because we don't have to pay for his bad habits "
Read My Lips wrote on Jul 27, 2008 6:34 PM:
" I say none of your deserve a damned penny from "the system." In the end, we the taxpayers have to foot YOUR bills.
If you made a POOR decision and one of the parents ran off, too bad, learn to live with it. It ain't my fault you are in the mess your in, and I shouldn't have to fork over my hard earned money to pay for your mistakes. "
mls3 wrote on Jul 27, 2008 5:46 PM:
" The NCP in our case doesn't take adv. of his parenting time, he complains about not having enough money (unless it's for alc. or drugs). I feel sorry for our kids because they'll never know the person he used to be, I only hope for him that he relizes what he's missing before it's too late. And I'd like to stick up for the CP's who spend the CS money on the kids tuition,clothes,food..etc. For the moms who chose to have kids with one man. I've known way too many women that are raking in major cash by having kids different fathers,while receiving 30% from each one! And working for cash on the side....what a racket!! It gives the rest of us a bad name. PS... hooray for parents who want to spend time with their kids and I'm sorry to those of you who would like to and can't. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 5:23 PM:
" My children have all been taught that before you lay down with someone you better ask what kind of parent they would make and if you would want to be part of that equation for their is no guaranteed birth control.
I learned the hard way real quick.
So far they have taken my advice.They also lived through the horrid effects of PAS from the 1st wife and the loss of sharing in the life while growing up of a sibling.So I guess they learned even a harder way!All is good now for theya re growm but the damage still haunts and cuts like a knife! "
Josie wrote on Jul 27, 2008 5:08 PM:
" You are right, it probably was a bit easier as we were once married. I just don't understand how people can get into bed with someone and make a child, but can't have a civil conversation regarding the support of that child. They need to think about what is best for the child, not themselves. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 4:59 PM:
" MOM OF 1: you are exactly right! The biggest problem starts with the non married out of wedlock children because in WI like some other states the CS system is involved right after birth whether the mother wants it or not and thats wrong!They make it legal with custody and support during a bonding time that all parents should enjoy many times creating just the situation you described. "
MOM OF 1 wrote on Jul 27, 2008 4:44 PM:
" Josie,
I agree that 50-50 is ideal. But that is for couples who have been married. Single folk have a hard time doing that. And I would venture a guess that a good share of these kids come from "never-been-married" parents. Those are the ones I have a hard time with concerning CS. Divorced couples are a different story. They decided together to have a baby and dad does gets 'some' rights. When our daughter was born, though, my husband could not even hold HIS baby without my permission. NCP need more rights and privilages, then maybe it would encourage them to take the responsibility so many demand them to take. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 4:28 PM:
" Josie: that is awesome and is the best senario but it only works when parents can communicate and get along which many times isnt the case.
people who can do that dont need the courts to even get involved. There are many broken families that dont need the court system and work it out on their own. Its only when they cant get along and work togeather for the benefit and healthy relationships between them and their children that the court is involved.
Yes in good workable situation where distance isnt a factor joint custody works great.I applaud you for sacrifices because it isnt easy doing joint custody but it works. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 4:21 PM:
" What ive mentioned in my ramblings is not intended to offend or pic on the CP for the system is what it is and isnt what it isnt and needs to be changed. Thats is my point! What ive mentioned is just a small example of whats wrong with it and why what happens ect. Theres no blanket formula and thats why it needs to be determined on a case by case basis on a more even playing field.Then if the NCP doesnt pay they should be put on a chain gand and in work camps. Im all for supporting the children dont get me wrong, but the current system is ruining peoples lives and damaging innocent children. "
Josie wrote on Jul 27, 2008 4:15 PM:
" Maybe more parents should seek joint custody. That is what my ex-husband and I did. We had a 50-50 custody arrangement. Neither of us paid child support to the other. We had the child equal amount of time. Shared expenses equally. Worked out great. Said child is now 19, in college, and has a good head on his shoulders. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 4:14 PM:
" KRUSTY you actually hit one out of the park. With the new world debit order that is an awesome idea.Just like foodstamps load and spending is tracked. The courts view has always been since the CP provided the majority of the care and support its owed to them and thats wrong. When the bills have taken all the money and the foodtamps are gone and the CS check comes in the 3rd week of the month the money gets spent on the CP's needs and not the children who go without untill the begining of the month or payday because the CP spends it on cigs and whatever that has no benefit to the child/ren. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 4:08 PM:
" nanigrrl7; I have raised 5 kids. One I had a CS obligation for and I owe nothing on from my 1st marriage and one is a step child I raised since birth and is now 20. I never saw a nickel from the sperm donor.Not a visit their choice! I understand where your comming from and I been to CS hell and back and can tell you 1st hand that the CP holds all the cards.
You are misconcepted based on your statement here of what CS is for."The support is for quality of life of the children" WRONG the CS is to offset the cost of raising the child/ren and is the NCP's OBLIGATION set by the courts PERIOD. Its the CP's responsibility to provide the quality of life to the child/ren.Some dont and blame the NCP for it. "
nanigrrl7 wrote on Jul 27, 2008 4:00 PM:
" And look closely at the list...many of these parents are listed multiple times. Each entry is a single case, not the total they owe all together. Do some of the CP's have more than other parent for their children? Of course. But there are many NCP's out there as well who are busy making babies that they will never care for because the consequences are a slap on the wrist. Creating children that you REFUSE to support for should be a criminal act. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 3:56 PM:
" I could go on and on and am part of an advocacy group for NCP rights who has been able to get many laws changed and the tides are turning but theres much more work to be done to bring a more even playing field in the CS arena.The sad thing is, is that its not all about the children its about money which needs to change for that money becomes the catalyst to an impasse alienating NCP's from their children. I understand why NCP's walk away! "
nanigrrl7 wrote on Jul 27, 2008 3:54 PM:
" Perhaps these comments would be a little kinder to custodial parents if those writing the comments had ever raised a child (or children) without the financial support of the other parent. There are true dead beat parents out there, and this list is only the tip of the iceberg. Granted, there are exceptions and some of these parents probably have good reason for not being able to keep up. But have they all been wronged by the system? Highly unlikely. There is an epidemic of parents who feel no responsibility towards their children, financially or otherwise. The support is for quality of life of the children! Now people are actually complaining about parents being forced to provide for their children? "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 3:51 PM:
" Notice there are more categories of NCP's than CP's. Thats because the system is designed to make money for the CP and they have all the benefits and resources in their court.The system doesnt take much into consideration when determining the amount of support that should be paid by the NCP and theres not any legal services available to them outside the ProSe arena which takes alot of time and some legal wit to use. The court represents and asserts the rights of the child and enforces them for the child because the child cannot. The NCP can represent and stand up for their rights so all the resources available by the courts to the CP are not abvailable to the NCP placing financial obligation first to defense. "
MOM OF 1 wrote on Jul 27, 2008 3:37 PM:
" To "Im Still Jackson"
You preach it. That is the very thing I am talking about. This time, you got it! "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 3:34 PM:
" Then theres the greedy CP who is really using the children as a weapon to get even out of spite that who go out of their way to poison the kids and turn them against the NCP at any cost while using the system and all the EXTRA resources available to the CP that the NCP doesnt have access to, to do their bidding. They deny visitation and make sure theres a cop sitting down the street on visitation day to arrest the NCP if they try to visit because most of these situations the NCP doesnt pay at all. This needs to be changed and should be criminal against the CP. Most of these CPs have multiple relationship children using them for profit! "
MOM OF 1 wrote on Jul 27, 2008 3:31 PM:
" I see these moms at the food pantry for a handout. They are talking about the big party they had over the weekend, who got drunk while smoking several cigarettes. Then they have the audacity to complain about the deadbeat dads who are not paying enough support? Why can't they get a job? The whole child support system is unfair to the NCP. Who cares if they live in a crummy $250/mth apartment and have to live on mac and cheese while working 60-80 hrs/wk just to make ends meet? And I have seen it happen right here in Tomah. Why do the moms get all the choices, all the help and the dads get all the crap? Something is desperately wrong with that picture. And I AM a mom. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 3:27 PM:
" Now the types of CP's
Theres the CP who tries to involve the NCP in their childs life no matter what even if the NCP is behind and dont pay.They realize the damage being done to the children by griping and involving them in the CS financial arena is hurting and damaging them and sadley they realize that the children will learn how the NCP is all on their own and dont need to add to their pain. "
MOM OF 1 wrote on Jul 27, 2008 3:25 PM:
" Oh give me a break!!! I am only talking to "single-by-choice" moms. Yes, it takes 2 to make a baby. But the moms get all the choices. If they want to abort, give the child up for adoption (which may be the wisest choice) or keep it. Dad gets NONE of these choices!!!! So what if he's not ready to be a dad. Shut up and pay for the rest of your life! She can get rental assistance, fuel assistance, food stamps, medical care etc. He can get NO HELP WHATSOEVER. I have seen dads working 2 jobs just to survive. And because they owe back support, they have their license revoked so they cannot get a decent job. They are not allowed by the greedy "moms" to even claim the kids on their tax return to help reduce the debt. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 3:23 PM:
" Notice I dont use terms like HE or SHE or Deadbeat Dad and instead use CP and NCP.
Theres been federal lawsuits over the Deadbeat Dad tag and studies show that there are almost as many women today that owe CS as men.
The proper term is DEADBEAT PARENT! "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 3:19 PM:
" Then theres the NCP who tries but just cant make the payments gets frustrated and figures out the system and stays under employed, works for cash to offset his living expense because they are underemployed and of course with these NCP's education usually plays a barrier role.
Then theres the NCP the system has just burried who never sees the children gets behind and just gives up and walks away.
During that period everyone goes without EVERYONE and the courts stand mute for incarceration is the only alternative. Meanwhile when all this is happening the debt is soaring and the time limits to reduce through modification is limited and by the time they get a clue and legal help be it ProSe or through however its too late to reduce the debt to a workable amount so they continue to be disenfranchised.4p7tm "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 3:18 PM:
" You have several categories of NCP's and by reading your responses its clear which ones fit who. No disrespect.
Theres the NCP that pays and pays on time and can and all is well Kudos to you but your a small percent.
Then theres the NCP like in this story who pays and pays and still cant get back to good left with a lifetime of debt over spousal support which IMHO should be wiped out. Make her go to work he supported his kids! "
Josie wrote on Jul 27, 2008 1:19 PM:
" I would think most NCP would have an idea where the money is being spent if they spend time with their children. If the children are fed, are wearing clothing, have what they need for school, have a roof over their head, and have utilities that should give a NCP an idea as to where the money is being spent. "
common-cents wrote on Jul 27, 2008 12:08 PM:
" I payed for 18 years with being a father to my daughter, paying court ordered support, all health insurance, and any other things she needed.
Emotional support is priceless.
You dead beat dads who don't even support your kids emotionally on top of no financial support should feel like losers.
Go get a job or two and start supporting your kids. "
Krusty wrote on Jul 27, 2008 12:07 PM:
" I've always believed that the CP should be issued a debit card that is filled when the NCP pays his child support payment. That way the money spent could be tracked online by either parent. Shouldn't the person paying support have an idea where the money is being spent? "
aggie wrote on Jul 27, 2008 11:29 AM:
" When they were young, I had to pay for everything, and many things were left unpaid so my kids could get the best I could afford. We learned to love macaroni and cheese and hot dogs, and I drove a car that probably shouldn't have been on the road. I never denied their Dad visitation, just wished that he would have really wanted to see his own kids and be part of their lives. And yes, I will collect every last bit he owes me, maybe I can get out of the debt he put me into. "
Madacire wrote on Jul 27, 2008 11:26 AM:
" Spend some time with your kids this month and buy them some school supplies while you're out. It probably won't be a fair percentage of what it costs to send them to school but your kids WILL appreciate it. The system would be better if it made the NON custodial parents seek adequate employment. It is amazing that after 4 years of being a "temp" that they don't do anything.. You speak of the cost of all of this yet if you need to you can pick up a Pro se packet at the courthouse and file motions yourself. (I have) Bottom line.... Your responsibility is to take care of your children. It won't be long and you'll look back and wonder why they don't come over or call? "
aggie wrote on Jul 27, 2008 11:25 AM:
" OK, so my kids are grown now, well into their later 20's, and yet my ex still owes a huge hunk of change. He chose to not be involved in their lives when they were young, so I got them involved in activities, Blue Stars, Scouting. Then he decided to become involved years later, but would not take them to their events. I saw minimal support, never asked for an increase...he only had to pay $50 a week. Yet, he still refused to pay. "
Madacire wrote on Jul 27, 2008 11:25 AM:
" Come on? You are obviously not thinking clearly here. Your responsability as a NON custodial parent is to ensure that YOUR children have some of your financial resources available to them. I can probably guarantee that you feel that you pay way to much and all you're doing is making the CUSTODIAL parent wealthy? Do the math rent or home payment, utilities, school, clothing, food, health and LIFE insuance and so many more things that a non custodial can never imagine. My childrens Mother is on that list which is obviously inaccurate as she owe about ten times that amount. She also thinks she pays to much. You two should get together as the SYSTEM is out to get both of you. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 10:32 AM:
" Chasing child support: Parents owe about $14.2 million in La Crosse County
ASK WHY? States are being accounted and acredited for how much they collect by the feds and they get funding based on those recovery numbers.If you want to see this first hand just have an obligation that involves 2 states and you will see contradictory amounts owed ect..Its a nightmare to get multiple states on the same page for they dont like to work togeather or give up jurisdiction in a CS obligation.This usually results in miss calculations that go un challenged because they require a court hearing placing further financial burdon on the NCP. Then theres the interest factor.CS is run just like a predatory lending practice once you are in their ARREARAGE GRIP! "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 10:22 AM:
" The system is a circular argument for many entraping them in its grip causing emotional pain and suffering for all involved.Theres a better way to do this and those alternatives need to be recognized and implemented on a case by case basis with a system that offers free representation for both CP and NCP removing the financial barriers and dealing swiftly with unreasonable CP's who deny visitation and damage the NCP children through P.A.S(parental alienation syndrom), and I mean ALL CHILDREN because quite simply NCP's have children too that are siblings to those CP's children as well.Its been proven that when the NCP is involved they tend to pay CS regularly and provide more for these children. Im sick and tired of hearing the system make excuses thats "its all about the children" when ITS NOT under the current one we have and it needs a total overhaul! "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 10:20 AM:
" Also theres the greed factor as well. Im a firm believer and I have been on both sides of the fence for over 25 years and I dont owe a dime, is that whoever has the children should be responsible for the quality of life of the child/ren PERIOD! This would keep more CP's from denying visitation while making out like a bandit by doing so and in many cases using that money for themselves instead of the children. It also should be a law that if you are a CP you should not be allowed to smoke for this drastically takes away from these children while smoking around them is harmfull and it also cost money.How many times ive seen a CP complaining how CS isnt enough while smoking 3 packs a day.Its harmfull and not a necessity which is what CS is for. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 10:16 AM:
" The visitation issue being seperate from the support issue is the biggest hurdle for the NCP to overcome for if they pay the support they cant afford to fight for custody or better visitation and dont have any money to spend on the child when they do have visitation. The CP's income is not considered either in the CS calculation leaving the CP to move on remarry ect without penalty while it penalizes the NCP for doing so. The CP has 5 kids by 5 fathers and gets 5 checks,
(((((((((((THIS SHOULD BE A CRIME)))))))))) while 5 NCPs struggle to survive because in all reality most go on and have a life outside paying most of their income to the CS.Its called living. Now enter this arena broke and you will owe forever and everyone suffers including innocent children from subsequent relationships. "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 10:15 AM:
" The NCP has to provide a place for visitation while financing the CP's household as well.Theres way more financial burdon placed on the NCP than the CP who has no extra obligations above the basic care needs of the child while collecting a monthly income from a former relationship that resulted in a child being born into it for they have to have a house, car, water electricity ect.. ect..
Also its a system that has poisoned the public with the deadbeat tag so that no one goes far enough to ask why arent the ncp's paying?
The system says to us, well because there deadbeats. Thats not the case most times.This story gives a great account of that "
Im Still Jackson wrote on Jul 27, 2008 10:13 AM:
" The sad thing is that the CS system needs a total overhaul its no longer deadbeat dads and quite frankly the only reason it ever was is because the system mainly awarded the child/ren to the mother.That has changed and the strict guidelines in place and time limits also need to be changed. What most people dont understand is the system is based on a knee jerk reaction model. The system does work if you let it and use your resources but it also is the NCP(Non custodial parent)worst enemy because it requires time and money which most NCP's dont have any left over after meeting their obligation and paying to bills "
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