The Moderate wrote on Aug 19, 2008 8:18 PM:
" I lost my "Red Rider" decoder ring, so I'm not really sure what you are trying to say in your last post. Near as I can tell you are saying I was right and you were wrong.
Also - how come when someone broaches the subject of "response time" you accuse them of using the "fear card", yet you insist the only reason the original daft proposal was defeated was because of the fear of a referendum. Are you saying your "fear card" is better than anyone else's "fear card"? "
Myturn wrote on Aug 19, 2008 11:03 AM:
" How fortunate for you to pluck a close excuse without bending or toil once more. That I am the reason for your lack of political activity. I should be able to google your name and activity before I entered this arena locally in July 2002. After I witnessed up close and personal the most egrigious ommissions and exchanged favors in any government entities in 56 years. But of course, like everything you write, it is meritless crap! "
The Moderate wrote on Aug 19, 2008 6:07 AM:
" If your idea of being politically active is carrying signs and posting personal attacks on everybody that does not "goose-step" to your opinion, then you sir are right that I am not (nor will I ever be) politically active. As you were so sure that this proposal was a "done deal", it is understandable that you would have to believe that you "made a difference". On the other hand, if you believed and predicted from the very beginning that the original proposal would never see the "light of day" (as I did in many posts) it would be apparent that your participation was at best marginal. "
Insightful1 wrote on Aug 18, 2008 8:58 PM:
" Tower - check the individual monthly reports for the explanations. Again, I invite you to call Tri-State and they can either provide you with their reports, or walk you through the reference notes. "
Myturn wrote on Aug 18, 2008 5:00 PM:
" Because we brought it up!!! LOL. Your side has danced around this fire so much that there is a rut around the fire pit. I would call you a damage control expert, but expert would be going too far. "
tower wrote on Aug 18, 2008 4:38 PM:
" Roofer Man, it evolved because your side kept bring it up. I still don't think the response times are very impressive in a town where you can drive from the middle of the Nside to the middle of the Sside in about 15-20 min in traffic and obeying all the laws. Look at the fractile. 90% for 2007 was 7:01. I still say we have three different dispatch center and I would suggest we have 3 different ways to figure the time. Pick one for all. I would suggest it is the same for amount of runs, ALS %, and on and on. "
tower wrote on Aug 18, 2008 4:32 PM:
" Insight, I have looked under Performance Indicators and then under Emergency Response for 2007 and 2008 and what you say its is not there.
3 says "From the time the ambulance is notified of the call until the time the ambulance starts in route to the scene" and 4 says "The total time for all calls from the time the unit is dispatched to the call to the time the unit is available for another call, all calls"
That is the chart I used and I used the average as that is what TSA always promotes. "
Myturn wrote on Aug 18, 2008 1:37 PM:
" I just love that this issue has amazingly evolved to 'response times'. More amamzingly that good people can continue to be patient and answer Knot Heads that have been sent to help this FEAR card's introduction to the table. "
Insightful1 wrote on Aug 18, 2008 11:53 AM:
" Tower, referring to the "Emergency Response Reports" on the web, the #3 note is next to the "Activation" time for a definition that states: "3. From the time the ambulance is notified of the call until the time the ambulance starts enroute to the scene."
Note #4 next to "Response Time" states: 4. From the time the ambulance is notified of the call to the time the ambulance arrives at the scene (includes activation time)."
Seems pretty clear to me? We just need to be comparing apples to apples.
Again, I'm sure Tri-State would be happy to go over the raw data with you anytime, just ask. "
tower wrote on Aug 18, 2008 10:36 AM:
" EMS Doc, you are right and I was too quick with my comment. I got a little looking down your nose at the common man. Without the medical knowledge there are many people in the community as well versed and educated to your level. Many MD's do not have your background in EMS and would add nothing to this discussion. I fail to see the value of opinion in a, lets say, oncologist in evaluating EMS. Again, I shouldn't have shot from the hip and thought it out a little more. "
tower wrote on Aug 18, 2008 10:30 AM:
" Ok, the overall times are rolled together. Where does that say that on the website? Your totals for 2007 don't. Your Note #3 doesn't. In fact Note #3 belongs under Activation. Ask the 911 Center when they start the clock. The processing Time is when GL gets the call and you do have something to say about that. What I am saying is that the Commission needs to look at all of this and standardize they way everyone does it. Right now it appears we have three different ways. If you take the fractile time it is not good either. "
Myturn wrote on Aug 18, 2008 10:20 AM:
" 3113- My what brave words for a man that I have not seen politically active, 'ever'? I do take 'some' credit for forming a train wreck of this proposed Plan. Gee, I was the first one who literally shook the referendum stick at them, and had ample coverage doing so (Tribune/WIZM). Unless you think that all happened without work, contributed hours, planning, and strategy. That coverage and direction happened with no planning as much as Johnsrud's side did coincidentally? Wake up! LOL. You sir are a bitch, and a scabpicker that does nothing but criticize. Pick a side, but do a little work for that side before you just bitch. Continually attacking the messenger with little to add to the debate grows old. "
The Moderate wrote on Aug 18, 2008 7:55 AM:
" I love the way MyTurn takes all the credit for this latest action. Kind of like the typical "politican". Apparently without his "help" none of us could have possibly seen the flaws in the ideas!
Apparently he also has one arm longer than the other just like his legs(from patting himself on the back too much). "
Insightful1 wrote on Aug 17, 2008 8:10 PM:
" Tri-State does track and publish its fractile times for each time stamp (from call processing through Time on Task).
LaX FD publishes its fractile response times only. Based on their data, they indicate that "Response" time as drive time to the scene, exclusive of Activation time.
If they would post their activation times in fractile, or do what Tri-State does, report response times INCLUSIVE of activation times, we could do a comparison. "
Myturn wrote on Aug 17, 2008 7:27 PM:
" And these knot-heads are talking about $5000 for over a 5 year period? This Plan is exactly what we should be talking about. Over paid, over benefited, poorly managed follies by too many government lackey's with no idea how to turn a profit, or run efficiently. At the same time people like the Mayor, Chief, and Doyle are enjoying their ride high in the passing cart. It has everything to do with this 'PLAN'! "
Myturn wrote on Aug 17, 2008 7:26 PM:
" 2Hoots- Your attempt to place yourself 'closer' to the City entering the Ambulance business is funny. Control of this forum or issue has not been given to you, by anybody, especially me! When Fireman receive measureably more in pay, and their benefit packages are strattosphere it is 'relevant'. Not mean spirited, 'relevant'. As you and your side strategize and lay out information on this Plan, their are others that look at it from a different direction. Duluth is about to lay off 169 City workers, the have a budget shortfall of $6.5 million. Superior has, and is considering bankruptcy. WTC has 17 campuses underfunded for employee benefits, and the Milwaukee Tech Campus alone for just one benefit is $228 million. The Milwaukee County employees are slated to be short $1 billion dollars for just 'ONE' benefit that they receive. "
EMSDOC wrote on Aug 17, 2008 6:43 PM:
" Tower,
You can measure whatever time standard you want, just do it in fractile.
And while the best standard is to measure the time from the call receipt at the 1st call, most agencies measure when received at the dispatch center, or worse, when the unit is dispatched.
And tell me how a fire chief with barely an associates degree is any more qualified to run a system than a physician? We at least have completed bachelor's degrees, prior to medical school - and in my case, it was in EMS Management, with emphasis on system design and development. I think you will find that makes me more qualified than the majority of fire department officers in the nation. "
Insightful1 wrote on Aug 17, 2008 6:12 PM:
" Further, the "Call Processing Time" is the time from when the dispatch center answers the phone, to the time the unit is notified of a response (this is also explained in Tri-State's reports). Neither Tri-State, nor LaX FD include call processing time in response times. No other EMS agencies do either as they are not in control of that time.
I'm sure Tri-State would be willing to sit down with you and go over the raw data as they have with 2 independent financial advisors who confirmed Tri-State's financial comments regarding costs to operate an ambulance are "spot on". "
Insightful1 wrote on Aug 17, 2008 6:09 PM:
" Actually Tower, you're calculating the times incorrectly. Tri-State's "Response" time INCLUDES the "Activation" time (the time it takes from unit notified to actually starting enroute to the call). The notes in Tri-State's reports indicate that inclusion. This is different than La X FD. The report "Response" time exclusive of "Activation" time; so to get a comparable response time, take Tri-State's Response Times and compare to La X FD's Activation + Response time (their DRIVE time to the scene). It's 59 seconds difference. "
Myturn wrote on Aug 17, 2008 6:01 PM:
" Tower and his pals are coming real close to saying it aloud, and strong. FEAR, with response times. That is all they have. There were no problems with the current service. They do not want to go back to initials ground. They only have the old shaking the left hand, as not to notice the right available to them. Interference, interference, more interference , and then a little confusion added. A 50k paid fireman receiving $9250 retirement contribution every year with current numbers/Tri-State (lower paid) at $50k $2000 for retirement each year. Then the firemen receive 55-65 post retirement health packages worth $160k and up/Tri NOTING!!! "
2Hoots wrote on Aug 17, 2008 5:21 PM:
" It sounds to me like TSA is reporting their times in a manner that corresponds to a national acceptable standard. How does the fire department record/report their times? Are theirs any better? Would a few seconds either way really make that much difference to justify making an extra $1000/year? Refer to my previous questions and try and answer them.
If you can't do that, why don't you share with us the REAL reasons for the FD to start an ALS transport service. "
tower wrote on Aug 17, 2008 4:34 PM:
" ok, take fractile times. It still is not what was stated now is it? Response times to most people would be from the time the request for a unit comes in until the unit goes location. Not the filtered times given. While elected officials may be poor consumers of EMS, MD's are poor businessman so they have no business running one. "
EMSDOC wrote on Aug 17, 2008 3:08 PM:
" Another fine example of a fire department trying to enter the EMS business - Why? So they can justify an already bloated budget? Its one thing if there is a need, another thing if they just "want" to.
The commission definitely needs to have physician voting members.
Everyone is quoting and measuring performance as averages - wrong way to evaluate - a 2 minute response and a 10 minute response results in an average of 6 minutes but doesn't tell the whole story. Instead, measure fractile times - for example, response times are less than 6 minutes 90% of the times, or dispatch time is less than a minute less that 95% of the time. Then you'll have real data to evaluate performance.
Considering most political bodies are terrible consumers of EMS, they really should identify independent voices to oversee the system "
tower wrote on Aug 17, 2008 7:15 AM:
" I know that all the members of the Flat Earth Society (especially Roofer Man) will be sending the Chief and Mayor a big "I was wrong and you were right" email. Don't all of you do it at once . Again, these are TSA numbers and no one elses. "
tower wrote on Aug 17, 2008 7:12 AM:
" That was the average which means 1/2 were greater then that. That is not impressive for a city the size of LaX. When one looks at all the staging going on it is even less impressive. Only TSA would define response time that narrowly. It is like saying waterboarding is not torture because we did not define it as torture. This is common with GL or TSA when it comes to figures. What else have they slanted by creative use of numbers? I would point out that Matt is a trained in EMS economics and knows how to play with numbers. "
tower wrote on Aug 17, 2008 7:06 AM:
" This may take a few postings. I went to TSA website and got all #'s for 2007. Since several of you brought up response time in the city lets look at it. Treat is selective in definitions.
They count response time as when "the wheels on the bus go round & round". They have a Call Processing time(average 54.9 sec) and an Activation Time (38.5 sec) and a Response time for the city from March to Dec of 4:42. By adding all of them together you will see that Cleveland was wrong in saying the time is 5 min. What it was for 2007 was 6:25 on average. "
traumacare wrote on Aug 17, 2008 1:46 AM:
" I agree very much with the last post that was put up. It seems things are getting way off track. I also think it is very insightful to look at the national suggestions for EMS. One more comment about the Vernon county TSA issue. By having TSA medic units in Vernon county, it is also possible for TSA to offer assistance to a much greater region of people, b offering the ability to provide an ALS intercept to an outlying service, (La farge, Soldiers Grove etc.) I think it is very prudent to provide regional EMS vs. a fracture system of many different services. "
2Hoots wrote on Aug 16, 2008 8:31 PM:
" 1)What is wrong with the EMS delivery system now?
2)How can a city FD ambulance enhance the system?
3)Are the residents of the city prepared to pay for something that is now provided for free?
4)Can the city of LaCrosse absorb additional expenses/cost overruns (greater than $5000 over a 5-year period)?
5)What EXACTLY will this do to the current regional EMS system?
6)What type of controls/QA/QC are in place now for the city and for TSA?
7)Can TSA improve their delivery of a service? How?
Try and stay on track without getting into grumblings of government(myturn!) or bashing one group over another. Thanks "
Insightful1 wrote on Aug 16, 2008 7:53 PM:
" Tri-State has been using some posting (out-of-station parking) fro years. It was expanded in February 2007 after the management change.
It was expanded to enhance geographic coverage and shorten activation times (time from alert to initiation of response) throught the entire region, not just the City of La Crosse.
For example, one of the post locations is Woodman's plaza to enhance coverage to Onalaska/West Salem/Barre Mills/Farmington area.
I'm sure if you'd like, Tri-State would be happy to provide you a copy of their system status management and posting plan, just like they provided all their financials to the CPA and Investment Banker who did their analysis to confirm Tri-State's costs and revenues. "
Insightful1 wrote on Aug 16, 2008 7:34 PM:
" In 2007, Tri-State's P/T turnover % was 0.21%. The P/T industry average for 2007 was 23.2; I'm sure the raw data is available from Tri-State, just like they gave raw financial data to the CPA and the investment banker who were asked to review their numbers. The national data is available at www.jems.com. "
oldems-r wrote on Aug 16, 2008 7:28 PM:
" I've been around EMS/FIRE longer than I can remember. I have taken the last 10 years to research the issue of which form of EMS works best.
The obervation I make about the article and the comments is that parochial minds are fighting for their own interests without looking at the bigger picture. Look at what the National Institute of Medicine thinks....How about the American College of Emergency Physicians. Of course what would they know about EMS.?! I noticed the "non-voting" (non speaking) participation allowed to the two physicians on your committee; how thoughtful. It just so happens that they might know more than your fire chief.....couldn't be.
oh oh. my limit of 150 words is up. Quality be da--ed. "
2Hoots wrote on Aug 16, 2008 4:37 PM:
" In answer to your question: TSA is not the ones that are 'fighting' to take over emergency runs. If I recall, the fire department is fighting for their right to start an ambulance service that we already have (and losing that fight too). I also believe I answered Nesster's question in all caps. Retention rates of part time persons is low in nearly all industries because they are 'part-time'. How many 20-year part time people have you heard of. If any, they are the exception and not the rule. As far as a station in West Salem, I don't know about that but to stage/post/station at Woodmans seems to cover that area pretty well. Is your problem with them staging, why they stage, or where they stage? Is their system not working? "
tower wrote on Aug 16, 2008 4:30 PM:
" Sorry, you still didn't answer either question which I don't find surprising as you know what the answers are. "
2Hoots wrote on Aug 16, 2008 4:27 PM:
" Ambulance services do make money - that's why they are in business. 'Most' FD ambulance services started because they had no ambulance service or had to pick up the pieces after a failed ambulance service. Which one of those two scenarios do we have here? If that happens, I would be very much in support of the FD starting an ambulance and would be just as vocal about that. However, there just isn't that need right now. There is nothing wrong with the service being offered to us for free right now.... "
tower wrote on Aug 16, 2008 4:17 PM:
" 2 Hoots, answer the question I asked before. Why should TSA fight that hard for emergency runs? You should beg the FD to do them. If you know EMS that well you should know the money is in non-emergency runs. I also don't agree you can't make money in EMS. Many depts do, such as Rural Metro. TSA says they do. "
tower wrote on Aug 16, 2008 4:14 PM:
" 2 Hoots, My comment on Viroqua was you never cared about outlying areas before, it still stands. Another point is West Salem. If you cared that much about the out county you would have a station in West Salem. I know why you don't and that is because another service did not set up shop there.
They did in Holmen and GL built a new station there. That is the only reason you are still there. With no station the unit would be in LaX tomorrow. Also, answer Nestor2 because all you did insult him. "
2Hoots wrote on Aug 16, 2008 4:12 PM:
" Nesstor2: The most prevalent times for fires in residential properties (according to the USFA) is between the hours of 5 to 7 PM and start in the kitchen area. Do you 'stage' accordingly during these hours? Are your stations strategically placed? I would guess that what the current TriState Mgt is doing is assessing the highest call-volume times and moving their 'stations' to the most strategic locations. Maybe you fire-guys should stage your trucks on street corners in the most heavily populated areas during dinner time. "
2Hoots wrote on Aug 16, 2008 3:56 PM:
" Nesstor2: Is there a point to your incessant ramblings, or did you have your barstool too close to 'tower' this afternoon?
Is TSA's retention rate different than any other private business around here? What business is that of you or me?
What's the retention rate of Mcdonals part-timers? What's the retention rate of Mathy Const. parttimers? Whats the rate at kwiktrip? Pizza Doctors? Rivoli? Ray Hutson? See what I mean? WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE!!!! "
Nesster2 wrote on Aug 16, 2008 3:43 PM:
" Hey Insight, I mean Matt Z., you never use to stage or as your say, "post" you ambulances in the past. This staging started when the FD started talking about getting into the ambulance Bus. a couple of years ago. You knew your reponse time was far greater than the fire dept. What is your retention rate for your part-time employees? "
2Hoots wrote on Aug 16, 2008 2:29 PM:
" Viroqua once had basically their own system. It was a portion of TriState but managed/operated by people from the Viroqua area. Viroqua/LaCrosse TSA were grouped together under one manager and a medic truck moved to the south area. Now there are two medic units and one basic/intermediate unit out of that station. It works very well for those in Viroqua and the western portion of Vernon County (the eastern side is covered by other ambulance services). Why would they want to start another ambulance service. TSA is already providing top-quality service (not just a 'good' level of care, like you suggested. Guess what else? It doesn't cost the residents of Vernon County a single penny! What's so hard to figure out about that? "
tower wrote on Aug 16, 2008 2:12 PM:
" 2Hoots, I did say that but I am not hypocritical about it. TSA has only care about the outlying areas when it was of benefit to them. They know where the business is. I think Viroqua would be better off running their own service. They could do well there and provide a good level of service to the community. "
2Hoots wrote on Aug 16, 2008 1:26 PM:
" Tower: YOU are the one that suggested earlier that the outlying areas were not important enough to value a voice on this commission you are so approving of. You stated that the outlying areas should take care of their own EMS. You speak with forked tongue.
Why should there be a commission in the first place? What is TriState NOT doing that has everyone so riled up? Why is their being owned by Gundersen Lutheran such a bad thing. As the city's largest employer, it can't be too bad.
Your arguments are lame - just like the presentation by our city officials at UW-L the other night. "
Myturn wrote on Aug 16, 2008 12:27 PM:
" I liked John better as well. Be careful not to tip your hat too early though. He might not be quite ready for the media lights? "
tower wrote on Aug 16, 2008 12:19 PM:
" Krusty, you are right about the gun shop. But you are wrong that I am Johnrud. I am way too liberal for him. I am not even all the happy with him as Mayor. I liked Medinger better. "
tower wrote on Aug 16, 2008 12:17 PM:
" Roofer Man, thanks man it means a lot to me to be Martin to your Lewis.
Trauma, what makes you think MD's know that much about EMS operations? I would have less of a problem with a commission loaded with MD's if they are not from GL or FSH. But you know that is not going to happen. TSA just wants to stack the commission with MD's they get to pick, mostly from GL. Most MD's I know are paid on production and don't want to take the time away from their practice to serve for nothing. I also think, as we are talking, we need a trauma MD, how about from Mayo or UW? "
Myturn wrote on Aug 16, 2008 12:07 PM:
" I have truly enjoyed the pro side come into this introduction period, hit a 'temporary impasse, and then send out their damage control people, to attack. Patience you will be subject to the final FEAR car, 'response time'. Although that was not mentioned initially. These guys are back up against the wall. Good going people of Lacrosse. Of course the most courageous media source headed up by Mr. Record spoke out rightly against yet another majority vote by Johnsrud and his marauder's. But even the Tribune even decided they could not remain mute on this one. Tower, keep it up, you breath life into this issue with every post. You make a great straight man. "
traumacare wrote on Aug 16, 2008 11:48 AM:
" In no way does the staging policy say that the outlying areas are less important, what it says is that TRI State is smart enough to analyze the trends of where most ambulance calls come from, and the post accordingly. Vernon county is covered by a minimum of two ambulances 24/7, and in the event that both ambulances are busy, a unit from the LAX area is sent that way to cover their area, just as when it is busy in the city, a unit is brought from an outlying area to the La Crosse area. Some of the recent statements on here show why it is important to have a commission of people with an understanding of EMS vs. off the cuff remarks. "
Krusty wrote on Aug 16, 2008 11:08 AM:
" Tower, is that you johnsrud? I would have to say a man who started a roofing company from scratch has more intelligence and respectability than a "man" who, say, was handed the keys to a gunshop. "
tower wrote on Aug 16, 2008 10:34 AM:
" He is able to skirt issues in one sentence. Turn any meeting into a marathon, belittle evildoers by posting. He stands for truth, justice, the American way while wearing his tarpaper cape. Doing battle with the Evil Empire on a daily basis. In the sky, its
Roofer Man. The chorus in the background is singing "He's everywhere, He's everywhere".
How will LaCrosse survive without him? How can we live in the greatest collection of trailers without him? Stand tall Roofer Man. "
tower wrote on Aug 16, 2008 10:27 AM:
" Insight, what you are saying is that the outlaying area, (Viroqua, Tremp Co mostly) aren't that important as you draw units up from them. In Viroqua I hear some grumbling about Readstown EMS being used all the time when your unit is gone for extended times. I guess Farmington, and N LaCrosse Co aren't that important either as the unit now has to come from LaCrosse. I don't believe TSA figures any more then I believe FD numbers. Outside sources are still the best. It is a little like asking Nestor if he is the best roofer. "
Insightful1 wrote on Aug 16, 2008 9:52 AM:
" When Tri-State has 1 ambulance available for the County, a Vernon County Tri-State unit is moved to La Crosse and Sparta Ambulance is moved into the county for mutual aid standby.
In 2008, a Sparta unit has been used three times (out of ~6,000 responses) to respond to calls in La Crosse County during peak call volume demand. Both times the Sparta unit responded from within La Crosse county in accordance with Tri-State's mutual aid agreements.
To improve coordination, Tri-State authorized Sparta Ambulance to operate on Tri-State's primary dispatch radio channel.
Despite multiple requests by Tri-State to allow Tri-State to operate on La Crosse FD's dispatch channel to improve coordination, such authorization has not been approved by La Crosse FD. "
Insightful1 wrote on Aug 16, 2008 9:45 AM:
" Tri-State's full-time employee turnover rate is 7.9% compared to the 2007 industry of 15.2% as reported in the Journal of Emergency Medical Service 2007 Salary Survey (copy available at www.jems.com). So Tri-State's turnover is nearly twice better than the national average.
"Posting" by Tri-State is done to enhance geographic coverage and minimize "activation" time, the time it takes to leave the crew's quarters, get in the ambulance, start the ambulance and begin responding. Activation times for "posted" units average 11 seconds and activation times for "in-station" units average 41.9 seconds. La Crosse FDs activation times average 1 minute, 28 seconds (per thier web site reports). "
Nesster2 wrote on Aug 16, 2008 7:59 AM:
" Hey, lets look at the employee retention rate of Tri-State Ambulance. If they have a high turnover rate, wouldn't that affect the quality of care that everyone says the fire department is going to disrupt by adding more paramedics to the system? Also, if Tri-State Amubulance has such a great response time, why do they need to "stage" an ambulance in the Northside parking lot at specific times of the day? Have there ever been times that Tri-State just can't respond to a call or hasn't shown up because they don't have an ambulance available? "
random annoying bozo wrote on Aug 15, 2008 10:11 PM:
" tower, your 3:05 post was completely assinine, and shows your desperately grasping at straws. "anti FD group"? being against a something that is not needed and that is no more than government duplicating something already in place is not 'anti FD'. i think you better see a doctor immediately, you may be suffering from anal asphyxia. it's main cause is believing government officals. who by the way are quite adept at blowing smoke up anothers arse. "
Myturn wrote on Aug 15, 2008 6:48 PM:
" How come we are not seeing throngs of people posting their 18.5% employer retirement contribution, or better? Oh yeah, it is a dangerous profession? "
Myturn wrote on Aug 15, 2008 6:26 PM:
" I am disappointed in myself. I am disappointed for debating/fencing/arguing with Tower. His 5:13PM post is like visiting my Uncle at the home, as he fades in and out. I am sorry to Tower, and his family.
For the rest of you readers of this thread, go stick a Mic or talk to Mayor Poellinger. Ask him his opinion. Ask him how this will affect our Bedroom community neighbors Lacrescent. Ask him how a long term Mayor/Fireman/Medic feels about the City Business Buttinski. "
2Hoots wrote on Aug 15, 2008 5:31 PM:
" Tower: How much proof do you need? Go to the tristateambulance.org site and look at the statistics yourself. Do some research and compare to state and national averages. Independent data is a 2way street - the city didn't have an independent source to back up their info either.
When these people come to LaCrosse they are covered. Has there been issue with that in the past? Or is this where we can make a buck - just like charging for extrications? (hows that workin for ya???) The people from out of town DO have a paramedic level service: TSA! Why would they start their own if they already have one? Also, if you think that most of the people that come into town are spending their time and money at the mall, you are just ignorant. You deserve to have your taxpayers move out of the city. "
bearcat25 wrote on Aug 15, 2008 5:24 PM:
" Is Tower a county board member? We sure do have some pretty arrogant board members both with the County and the City if this is the case...
Mayor Johnsrud tops em all by far though... "
tower wrote on Aug 15, 2008 5:13 PM:
" 2 Hoots, here we go again. Proof this is a better system. Since we don't have independent data we can't say. If the commission comes back and says so all the better. Also, since all these people come into LaCrosse they can be covered. If they want that kind of service while at home start a paramedic service for themselves. They spend most of the money at the mall anyway. "
2Hoots wrote on Aug 15, 2008 4:46 PM:
" Point O'view: What does the government of this city need to protect its citizens from? Why the need to be in control? Is there something wrong with how the service is being provided? Is the city spending too much on TriState coverage now? Subsidizing in any way, shape, or form? You are right about one thing: If TriState was not around, the city would be responsible for protecting its citizens. Here's the kicker: TRISTATE IS AROUND AND THE SYSTEM HERE WORKS BETTER THAN IN MOST OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE/COUNTRY!!!!! "
2Hoots wrote on Aug 15, 2008 4:40 PM:
" Tower: Your arrogance is to be expected. TSA is a regional provider with an emphasis on the city of LaCrosse (Duh, that's where the highest population is). Those outside the county ARE looking at how this affects their EMS systems. Even those IN the county WILL be affected by the city decision. As for not supporting LaCrosse City/County, you need to open your eyes. The daytime population of this city more than doubles. Where do all of those folks come from? Where do they shop? Entertain? Dine? Work? And to say outsiders don't support the city is foolish. They don't pay taxes here but DO make it possible for the city to exist. It works both ways. The city is not a self-sustaining entity. Those outside the city/county ARE watching and are concerned about their EMS systems. "
JS wrote on Aug 15, 2008 4:35 PM:
" Point O' View's comment has to be sarcastic. No one could be that stupid. "
common-cents wrote on Aug 15, 2008 4:25 PM:
" Point of View What planet are you on? Your a government employee who could not work in the public sector. "
Point O'view wrote on Aug 15, 2008 4:19 PM:
" My turn, calm yourself. Utimately, the city would be responsible for providing pre hospital care if TSA was not around. What happened here is the city is trying to protect its citizens. You sound like you support socialism, what is so wrong with the city govt trying to control this? I support you, Mr Mayor. "
Myturn wrote on Aug 15, 2008 3:21 PM:
" That would mean the new Mayors starting secretary would have $8115.00 each year contributed toward just retirement by 'taxpayers' figured at 18.5%. And they make alot more than the Mayors secretary. Oh yeah, add the cost that the City is self insured, prorate the past settlements, and ....... Well you know, or you will, when we put it up on the PowerPoint screen. Don't forget the $160k post retirement health coverage from 55-65. Of course we all have that out here on the Northside as well. LOL "
Myturn wrote on Aug 15, 2008 3:19 PM:
" Tower- I would like to field that question. Because that is how they get their foot in the door. Easily reflected in information gathered in other communities. Almost a step by step path taught and passed on by the Fire Department unions. Then they take over the original area, find an excuse, then the outlying areas, then they have no competition. Now we have Fireman staffing a System making considerably more money, and we are sending in matching pay contributions to the the tune of 18.5% for their retirement. Now I want you all to post now if you receive 18.5% employer retirement contribution. "
bearcat25 wrote on Aug 15, 2008 3:18 PM:
" tower the anti-FD seems to be the mass here. As a citizen of this town I am getting a little sick and tired of this. The people DON'T want it so STOP. EMS is NOT a money maker. One thing no one has mentioned is that with ALS First response you are GOING to have literal fights over 1. who's in charge of patient care decisions. 2. Who gets do to a certain skill because now we will have to fight to keep skills up. and 3. A pissing match between TSA and the FD because of it. It would be setting medics in both system up for failure. "
Myturn wrote on Aug 15, 2008 3:06 PM:
" Because if you misjudge me, you have already given me a head start. I'll make a bet with you. When I walked in that Public Hearing Room there were more people that knew who I was than you? Many with regular communication. That's some pretty good "rambling" from an old roofer. Oh yeah, I wouldn't discount a 'blanket statement' referendum if the coals seems to relight themselves. Count on it!!! Now that is a threat. "
tower wrote on Aug 15, 2008 3:05 PM:
" I guess one question to ask the anti-FD group is why do you want to stop them from taking the low paying high risk runs from TSA? If I was TSA I would be begging the FD to do them. The money in EMS is in the non-emergency transports that aren't very fun. "
Myturn wrote on Aug 15, 2008 3:05 PM:
" Tower- '2 minutes'? "we finished right at 9pm"? With your usage of the collective "we", tell your side that if there is scent in the air of shennangins 'we' will have a public meeting. Where dignataries, not roofers, will call the media to attend, and will not be ignored. This time the 'alternative' side will run the Meeting, and your "we" will have 2 minutes to respond. "rambling"? Well this roofer has not done so bad at administering CPR into many controversial issues in our Cities past and keeping them alive. I love guys like you. "
tower wrote on Aug 15, 2008 3:02 PM:
" Trauma, I was speaking somewhat sarcastic. I know about trauma injuries. I think you would be surprised at the level of knowledge of some of the people in the county. I agree it may take some training and study but they could easily do it. I would like the commission to work and work well. It needs to keep the big picture and not get bogged down in minute detail that I am afraid it would become with many MD's on it. Not all MD's are created equal here. A trauma surgeon is one thing and a skin MD is another. "
traumacare wrote on Aug 15, 2008 2:46 PM:
" Tower- In EMS, we could be talking about Brain Surgery, does the word closed head injury or traumatic brain injury mean anything to you? I am not trying to insult the town board chairmans at all by saying they have little knowledge of EMS, but how many of them have contemporary EMS training? Just because I know a small amount about something lets say like football, doesn't mean I am capable of making decisions governing an NFL football team. I am not at all against a commission, I just feel that the commission should be one that is would be a model for other communities around the region and country. "
tower wrote on Aug 15, 2008 1:46 PM:
" Again, I like the commission idea. I would point out the above statement just above this comment box. No profanity, which you have used, no personal attacks, which you do, no slander which you do also. I can see why you get kicked off. By the way you need to stay on issue. When you go off down the Yellow Brick Rd you can talk to yourself. The reason you got 2 min was because without a time limit you would still be talking and no one else would get a chance. If you did not ramble constantly you could have said what you wanted to easily.
I would point out we finished right at 9pm which is when UWL wanted everyone out. "
Myturn wrote on Aug 15, 2008 1:43 PM:
" Sorry- WIZM Mitch Reynold's Show quotes from the Mayor/"That's one of the reasons we look at elected officials because those people are being educated on this issue", "I am not sure they are going to make an educated decision based on all the facts"
("They" = Taxpayers). "They" have never heard all the facts!!!! Same old/same old in this town. Besides being categorized as remedial by the Mayor. I suggest someone in his camp slap him with a magazine when he makes statements like these, and more. "
Myturn wrote on Aug 15, 2008 1:34 PM:
" Apparently the Mayor has aligned this Plan with "Brain Surgery" because, "That's one of the reasons we look at elected officials because those people are being educated on this issue", "I am not sure they are going to make an educated decision based on all the facts". That is why he wanted to bypass educating taxpayers and go directly to his votes on Council to get his Ambulance business. Do you suffer from ADD, or do you at one time or another place your legs under the Mayors table? "
Myturn wrote on Aug 15, 2008 1:30 PM:
" Tower- I am going to sloooowww this down for your blue headed covered brain. To this date, taxpayers have not heard the alternative side. Are you with me this far? They were given 2 minutes to do so at a Public Meeting after 1 year behind closed doors. I have farts that lasted two minutes. You still there buddy? Whether we approve a Plan of some sort or spend the money to set up and run a Commission we as taxpayers deserve to hear both sides. "
tower wrote on Aug 15, 2008 1:28 PM:
" Two Hoots, Let those outside the county take care of their own EMS. I don't see them giving money or anything else to LaCrosse County for anything.
Nestor, just kills you not to know who I am but I am not stupid. Between you and the rest of the Flat Earth Society my phone would ring off the hook with kooky calls. But we are watching you, don't look too closely at the light pole across the street. You may see the little camara up there. By the way, be sure to fasten you seat belt and those of the kids. "
Myturn wrote on Aug 15, 2008 1:19 PM:
" Tower-Your constant labeling of me as 'Nestor' is a joke. Somehow believing your tough talk certifies you, at the same time you appear anonomyous. I have posted my name, address, e-mail, phone # and heartfelt invitations to come up and see me to many during for a myriad of reasons for quite a long time now. It is apparent you are again slow on the switch. The Tribune is the 'free print' entity that has baned me in the past. Apparently even changing their mind that I am a voice to be heard in this City, rather than a "putz". So your constant referal to 'Nestor' is a laugh. Couple what I have stated and add that you surfaced with this 'Plan' introduction. As if you figured it out and now distribute that to all??? LOL "
2Hoots wrote on Aug 15, 2008 1:11 PM:
" A commission should be comprised of officials that are affected. TriState covers a big area. Any changes to the EMS coverage in the city WILL have a ripple effect through the entire area. If I am an EMS Director in Farmington, DeSoto, Viroqua, West Salem, Galesville, Cashton, or Coon Valley, how can I have a say in how my EMS system of delivery is affected? Why JUST LaCrosse City/County officials? I say leave well enough alone. TSA has an impeccable record in the entire region. "
tower wrote on Aug 15, 2008 12:33 PM:
" Apparently Nestor doesn't read too well. I have stated several times I like the commission idea and would like to at least have it. As far as ingnorance goes what is your background in EMS?
Traumacare, no one said the reps from the hospitals couldn't be MD's, it says representatives.
Also, just because a town chairman is on the board doesn't automaticly mean they know nothing of EMS.
Same goes for the rest. We are not talking about brain surgery here. "
my word wrote on Aug 15, 2008 12:17 PM:
" NOW THEY WANT A STUDY ????? INTERPETATION = NOT ENOUGH VOTES TO GET AMBULANCE SO LETS DELAY, WHAT A JOKE. MAYOR GIVE IT UP AND CLEVELAND SHOULD FIND ANOTHER JOB AS TO THE ONLY REASON HE WAS HIRED IS TO GET AMBULANCES AND GLAD IT IS FAILING. OUTER COMMUNITIES WOULD SUFFER AND LA CROSSE RESIDENTS WOULD PAY BECAUSE WHEN IS THE LAST TIME GOV TOOK OVER ANYTHING AND SAVED $$$$$$ LET ME SEEE STILL WAITING FOR THE FIRST TIME I THINK "
Oh My wrote on Aug 15, 2008 11:20 AM:
" Besides the ENORMOUS COST to the tax payers, think about this. Is it possible that the paying patients would request and get Tri State and the non-paying patients would have to settle for the County Ambulance? Now that would do wonders to our taxes - don't you think? Since when is duplication of services a money saver? Are there ANY advantages to Mark's idea? I don't think so. "
Myturn wrote on Aug 15, 2008 10:54 AM:
" I could make a Public Service Announcement on how to get lazy asses out of their recliners to get involved, and vote. We just proved how a few taxpayers speaking up can change things. You can make a difference! Even the Mayors minions realized the political freight bill would be too much. Be prepared for the 'end around' play. This guys back is up against the wall. "
traumacare wrote on Aug 15, 2008 10:52 AM:
" I like the idea of a commission to oversee REGIONAL EMS DELIVERY, not just for the city. However, the commission needs to be made up of people WITH KNOWLEDGE, contrary to the mayor's quote of wanting people without intelligence. The commission as it is proposed is made up of people without "knowledge" of EMS. Medical doctors also shouldn't be prevented from voting on MEDICAL issues! "
Myturn wrote on Aug 15, 2008 10:40 AM:
" Funy, How Tower ran interference for the 'PLAN'. No he immediately switches hands with the torch and runs with the Commission. A Commission as is, as if they dropped the 'PLAN', and we should now somehow not even scrutinize the 'COMMISSION', the makeup, and who picks those makeup members? Tower, look to your side while you are running, that person running step for step with you, sharing water with you, their name is 'ignorance'. "
Myturn wrote on Aug 15, 2008 10:33 AM:
" Do you really think that those in power in this City want anybody with knowledge/experience/education about bookkeeping around the City books? Do you think they want anybody close to reflecting back on the Chief's PowerPoint P&L numbers and scrutinizing them? These leaders are literally running from this. They know full well that they will not come out with even yet more battle scars. This is an illustration of promises and a Mayor who is so frightened of the upcoming election he was willing to pay $1.2 million for a bloc of votes. As he is faced with selling guns again in a small business venture that even that was turn-key handed to him on Jackson Street by his Daddy. "
tower wrote on Aug 15, 2008 10:32 AM:
" I think the commission is fine the way they want it. We went through this 20 years ago and we saw where it took years to figure any thing out as there were too many people making decisions. We need a commission to gather raw data, not passed through either TSA or GL or SFMC or FD. I find many of the members of the Flat Earth Society way off base on this one. By the way, ambulance services not run by hospitals aren't covered by JCHAO. "
tower wrote on Aug 15, 2008 10:28 AM:
" Sorry hoponpop Gold Cross didn't leave because of poor business. They left because GL wanted St Francis to buy 1/2 of TSA and when St Francis ended an agreement with Gold Cross GL backed out.
Thus, leaving Gold Cross out. I know as I know one of the persons in the meetings. "
hoponpop wrote on Aug 15, 2008 9:39 AM:
" The protocol part troubles me, I hope that's just uninformed use of the word. And as this is a "County" Commission, what about Sparta Ambulance? They operate in portions of the county. The original ordinance included having all La Crosse County EMS have one Medical Director, but who are "they" to dictate which M.D. a service may use. And Rie, Gold Cross isn't here anymore. Hasn't been for a few years. Seems the area doesn't have enough business to support two ambulance services in town. "
2Hoots wrote on Aug 15, 2008 9:26 AM:
" TriState's been in business for how many years? Don't they have some type of quality assurance/quality control program now? What is it about TSA that we should be aware of? Being a potential 'customer' of TSA, what should I know about them? If the mayor and his lap-dog fire chief have some information (or anyone else too) please let me know. If theres dirt out there, scoop it up for the rest of us.
Still trying to find the dirt? Tough to find what isn't there, ain't it??? "
Myturn wrote on Aug 15, 2008 8:33 AM:
" Can you hear it? Truly the sound of steps coming toward our City government. The feet of formerly inactive, apathetic citizens who spoke/woke-up this time and a few bothered to take the time and make a calls to their Councilmen. That is, if you have a Councilman. Are you listening Harnden? First the Mayor, then Kader, Farmer, Lenard, Harnden and..... "Smaller steps", get it?????? "
Senior Advocate wrote on Aug 15, 2008 8:20 AM:
" Hope the people of LaCrosse see through this new smoke screen. If the bozo mayor and fire chief cannot have it all they will do it peacemeal. What is with these clowns? A referendum might be the only way to deflate their oversized egos. their is nothing, I repeat, nothing wrong with the current system. Leave well enough alone and get on to working on some real problem and leave your egos at home. As to the fire chief, the bigger you can grow the dept. the more money you can demand for yourself, you are not fooling anyone , I hope. "
Tipper of Cows wrote on Aug 15, 2008 8:16 AM:
" I never realized before what a greasy little worm that Johnsrud character is. Lets all hope and pray he doesn't get reelected! "
turbocharged wrote on Aug 15, 2008 8:11 AM:
" Why would we pay for a "commision" to oversee Tri-State? Its almost as stupid as having a goverment committee oversee a car dealership. Tri-state oversee's themselves and they are accountable for their actions. Mayor Johnsrud says there needs to be more accountablility. For what? They are accountable! If they screw up, they pay the price for it. They monitor themselves to make sure nothing goes wrong and that they give the best care possible. EVERYONE NEEDS TO KEEP AN EYE ON THIS SITUATION BECAUSE BEFORE WE KNOW IT, THERE WILL BE AN AMBULANCE SNUCK RIGHT ON THROUGH. "
Dirty Little Secrets wrote on Aug 15, 2008 8:05 AM:
" It nees to be made up of part elected offials (distributed evenly through the county), Healthcare professionals (attorneys and accoutants), and Medical Doctors. This is the only hope of every having a EMS system established with the best interest of the patient. Not political gain. "
Dirty Little Secrets wrote on Aug 15, 2008 8:05 AM:
" Hey everyone: Lets make one thing perfectly clear. The reason they are retreating right now is because of all of you how took a stand and called your representative.
However, this is not over by a long shot. This mayor is still going to try to pull something over on us. His first step is to establish a EMS Commission that is heavily stacked in his favor. Once this commission is established and has teeth(so to speak), he will try again.....I believe a commission is good, and so does Tri State (after all, it was their idea), but it has to be made up of individuals who have the care and interest of the citizens in mind. "
Myturn wrote on Aug 15, 2008 8:02 AM:
" Rie-This is not about "pride". This about job retention, budget protection, and securing a bloc of votes. The status quo is just fine, and it is free. This indeed is a 'foot-in-the-door' attempt, using a Commission handpicked, and questionably chosen from areas and professions custom made to stack the deck. Krusty is right, this is a 'step' all right, a step in the same direction. That is what happens when you have made promises. Do not let this become a subliminal excuse not to have a forum and PowerPoint programs from an alternative side. 'Two minutes' to speak at one controlled, after one year of closed meetings was certainly not enough for the contrary information that is out there for all to view. They are trying to sidestep that scenario. Gee, I wonder why? "
Krusty wrote on Aug 15, 2008 7:39 AM:
" I know that the "mayor" and at least some of the council members read these blogs on occasion...Here's what I am asking of any of them that might read this...Have any of you even considered doing anything, anything at all, to try to reduce the property tax in Lacrosse? Why does it seem to the average person that you are all untrustable? How about you people try just once to do something that will benefit the average homeowner in the city, would it be that hard? Maybe if you did something for the common good, instead of for yourself or buddies, maybe, just maybe, you all on the council and the mayor wouldn't be such worthless greedy little scumbags. "
The Truth wrote on Aug 15, 2008 7:22 AM:
" Hopefully this "retreat" will include at least O-N-E new thing though. A NEW MAYOR!!! "
Rie wrote on Aug 15, 2008 6:54 AM:
" He won't pick up his toys and go home because it's a matter of pride to him. I don't think they realize that aside from training Firefighters as Paramedics and purchasing vehicles there's the whole spectrum of billing practices, JCHAO, and CMS to deal with also. I don't see a problem with having the additional trained staff in the Fire Dept because it would be helpful to have in the event of a disaster but then you have 2 ambulance companies that are operating in that area besides to Augment the transportation ( Tri State and Gold Cross). "
random annoying bozo wrote on Aug 15, 2008 6:44 AM:
" Mr Mayor summed up what the plan is with one line, "What we've learned is we need to take this one step at a time". you're never going to get a clearer answer from a politician than this. the Mayor is going to get his way on this, just do it one baby step at a time. what government is really good at is just doing one small thing, then another, then another, then another. and before you know it, they got what they wanted without most even knowing it. "
joeemt wrote on Aug 15, 2008 6:41 AM:
" the commission needs voting doctors as members. It is also skewed towards the city. Towns and villages have only 2 members and 60% of the population. towns and villages need more representation or the city will ramrod what ever they want through the commission. It is time to keep hounding representatives including town and village board members to be sure that this commission actually has teeth. "
joeemt wrote on Aug 15, 2008 6:37 AM:
" Paramedic first responders will not have time to use their skills. It takes 2 to 3 minutes to do an assessment before any ALS skills can be used. Tristate is there before that much time ans lapsed. It is a waste of time and taxpayer money to send these firefighters to school for skills that will almost never be used "
fortsa123 wrote on Aug 15, 2008 6:07 AM:
" How can a commission of non medical personel over see protocols of an ambulance. Doesn't make much sense to me. "
Krusty wrote on Aug 15, 2008 4:24 AM:
" Why do they need a "commission",a "committee",a "focus group" or any other group of over paid idiots to try to mess with something that works great the way it is? Just drop your money grubbing scam johnsrud, the city caught you trying to get your grubby little rat hand into the cookie jar. Just pick up your toys and go home. "
zz wrote on Aug 15, 2008 12:46 AM:
" If you want to DELET comments do so . "
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