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Published - Sunday, August 17, 2008

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JOE ORSO: Talking about war in La Crosse


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La Crosse became a crossroads last week for two groups of travelers moving through the American landscape during a war.

The first group, a father and his two sons, were on their way from Queens in New York, to San Francisco, raising awareness about fatherhood and promoting changes in the law to empower men to take part in raising their children.
Florida natives Gene Floyd, 39, and his sons, Stefan, 19, and Joshua, 16, encountered the other group when they picked up the Tribune on Wed-nesday.

On the front page was a photo of war protesters walking from Chicago to St. Paul, where the Repub-lican National Convention will be held.

While Gene is an Air Force veteran, Stefan is in the Army Reserve, and Joshua plans to join the Air Force after high school, all three said they supported the protesters — not just their right to protest, but also the sentiment that the Iraq war is wrong.

“I’m against war, but I also recognize it’s sometimes a necessary evil,” Gene said. “I just don’t think the current Iraqi war is one of those times.”

Stefan, who joined the Reserves in the spring and plans to enlist after college, said there’s a rumor his unit is going to Iraq in September.

“I’m not really for the war, but since I did sign up for the military, I’m going to do what’s possible to help out,” he said.

“It’s his duty,” his father added.

The three left La Crosse on Wednesday.

Thursday night at the La Crosse Public Library, the group of 10 war protesters called for an end to further funding for U.S. military action in Iraq, for support of veterans and for funding for the reconstruction of Iraq.

In the library basement, Paul Melling, a veteran with the group, talked about firing bullets where Iraqi civilians were, and how the phrase “two in the heart, one in the mind” — referring to bullets — was repeated in his unit.

After he spoke to a group of about 50, a local Vietnam veteran approached him and the two left the room to speak in the hallway.

Don Gaunky, 25, an Iraq war veteran whose brother died in Iraq in 2005, attended the event, and contended that when people call the war “immoral” and “illegal,” America’s enemies use that as justification to kill Americans.

Renee Espeland, 47, one of the walkers, commended Gaunky for coming.

“Here’s a soldier who has served two tours and lost a brother,” she said. “It’s not about necessarily agreeing all the time as much as it’s about staying in relationship.”

The walkers emphasized they held Republicans and Democrats responsible for the war.

What I liked about these two groups passing through town is that, unlike those two parties so often are, these people weren’t totally predictable.

Gene, for instance, voted for Reagan, Bush Sr., never for Clinton, never for Bush Jr., and plans to vote for Obama.

But in encountering all of this war and anti-war activity, I’m also reminded that this sad belief, expressed by Gene, still dominates us: “This war will end like all other wars. We’ll still have a military. We’ll still have enemies to defend against.”

You can read more here: www.rideforfatherhood.org and www.vcnv.org.

Joe Orso can be reached at (608) 791-8429 or jorso@lacrossetribune.com.
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Michael Welch wrote on Aug 18, 2008 11:58 AM:

" Oh yeah W did 'serve' as a hot shot pilot 'defending' the skies above Houston from the Viet Cong while partying naked on bars and snorting coke during his off hours. He NEVER volunteered for the 'Nam (as others in his air national guard unit did) and he finally just stopped 'serving' in order to get into an Alabama senate campaign and FINALLY get away from all this military stuff crampin' his style. Yeah I guess that was a kind of 'service' but 'service' dedicated to keep Georgie boy's precious rich kid's butt outta VC gun sights while some other shmoe's 'junior' takes the bullet for him... "

Michael Welch wrote on Aug 18, 2008 11:27 AM:

" Also the babbling below (jeez Gunny you OWE the Wisconsin school system MONEY BACK!) contains the rankest cliche of all -- 'freedom isn't free.' Well it is 'free,' as noted below, in a system in which these wars are endless, the deployments multiple and the same folks fight this year in Afghanistan, next year in Iraq. NO ONE who started these wars -- Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld -- EVER SERVED in the military and NO ONE in their immediate families is in uniform or ever will be. For them their 'freedoms' are indeed 'free' and not only that they get paid a hell of a lot more for not fighting. And if some soldier returns with PTSD and skips morning formation they set him to cleaning latrines; he's not 'free'; he only receives bathetic tripe filled 'honorifics' from the inarticulate -- 'Don't brother' indeed! Don't go!... "

Michael Welch wrote on Aug 17, 2008 2:37 PM:

" When I was a Reaganite writing letters to the Trib editor a couple times a month WAAY back in the 1980s there was a very bitter ex-COMBAT marine (he dragged a leg to 'prove it') who would send me periodic 'hate mail' often questioning whether I was a 'real veteran'; otherwise I couldn't possibly believe as I did then. Now that I've seen things more this marine's way in the past ten years (unfortunately he killed himself with drink, cracking his car into a tree) I occasionally get accused (AGAIN!) of not being a 'real vet.' But vets are like black folks, hispanics, women etc., in that we ALL have OUR opinions, not the self authorized 'proper' one plumped by some super-partisan types desperate to justify ANY and EVERY American war. Vets vote McCain; vets vote Obama; vets vote Ralph Nader -- live with it... "

Mack wrote on Aug 17, 2008 1:50 PM:

" Gunny has the yips again. We're afraid of everything. This war will go on until we institute the draft again. Until then, less than .5% of Americans, the poorest of the poor, the bluest collar of the blue collars will continue to fight Bush's hobby war through stop loss and recalls, while the rest kick back with a beer or fruity cocktail, a bowl of transfats and watch it on TV. Sorry Gunny, but you're going to have to get to your point if you want anybody to read it. "

Gunny wrote on Aug 17, 2008 11:58 AM:

" Sorry Groucho. Were you there for the discussion or is that something that you missed. I know it was hard to take the time to go to something and talk both sides of an issue. I guess I missed your discussion on that the other night.

gunny "

groucho wrote on Aug 17, 2008 8:40 AM:

" So, Gunny, we're in Iraq to protect our freedoms as Americans? And all this time, I thought it was the oil. Thanks for clearing that up. "

Gunny wrote on Aug 17, 2008 7:12 AM:

" Sorry for the mistype. It should have been "A special thanks to Don's Brother" not Don't Brother.

I am truly sorry for that Don. Stay Strong and Proud of your Brother. A true Hero. I know that you and your family and friends will all remember him as a very great person. As a member of the Patriot Guard Riders, I say for all of us, it was our Honor to be asked to be there during your time of need. Thank you and God Bless you and your Family.

Gunny "

Gunny wrote on Aug 17, 2008 7:04 AM:

" Anyone that would like to dispute what I have written has that right. Given to you by Veterans freely. Don Gaunky, Call me at 790-3788 or anyone else that would like to say yea or nay to what I have written. I was at the meeting and before you knock me, were you?
A Special Thank you to Don't Brother and his sacrifice. God Bless him and all Veterans that have given so much. "

Gunny wrote on Aug 17, 2008 6:58 AM:

" If you talk to Don and other Vets, the vast majority will tell you they are doing right. Our own 32nd Eng. Batt. served honorably and bravely in Iraq during some of the heaviest fighting and returned rightly so to a Hero's welcome. They may be going back, but I am willing to bet that they are all proud of what they have done and will do again if needed. I salute them and pray for them, but I will not try to belittle them for doing their duty. They are true Hero's and should be treated as such. Without them, you would not be able to know me and say that what I have written is all lies as some will.

Gunny "

Gunny wrote on Aug 17, 2008 6:53 AM:

" Ok, your tied of me but just this. Don Gaunky, lost his brother in Iraq and spent 2 tours there.
The last one after the death of his brother. He volunteered to go back and like everyone in the Military is a volunteer. The last person that wants to go to War is one in the Military, but that is their job and their only job. To protect our Country and our Freedoms. If while doing that we can give others Freedoms like ours, so much the better. We have been able to do this all over the World. "

Gunny wrote on Aug 17, 2008 6:49 AM:

" As I said, sorry but to get the truth out takes some time. Every Veteran who has been through a War, knows for a fact that FREEDOM IS NOT FREE. For this person to make this remark is like saying everyone that has fought or died to protect our
Freedoms has done so for no reason at all. If we had not fought for these rights it would not have mattered. Tell that to the WWII Veterans that kept Japan and Germany from attacking us again, or worse yet, invading our Country. If people want to protest a War, they should at least have the facts and not just spout lies and try to deceive people.

Gunny "

Gunny wrote on Aug 17, 2008 6:44 AM:

" I am not saying they do not have the right to question the war or march against it, but they should at least try to tell the truth. Another remark made by Paul was that Freedom is Free. This is false also. The Freedoms we have have been paid for many times over, since the Revolutionary War until now by our Military. Many have paid the highest price, like Don's Brother so all American Citizens will have the freedom of speech along with so many other freedoms.

Gunny "

Gunny wrote on Aug 17, 2008 6:37 AM:

" To make statements like this is the same thing that John Kerry's winter soldiers did during Vietnam. They were later proven to be lying about everything. All their stories were made up. Most never even served. The few that did never left the rear. What he stated was also refuted by Don Gaunky, a 2 tour Vet. I have talked to hundreds of Iraq Vets and all have been proud of the job they did while over there. Not one has ever called it a bunch of crap. The majority of this group was a throwback of the Vietnam era and their arguments were wrong then and still are. "

Gunny wrote on Aug 17, 2008 6:32 AM:

" Due to space it is hard to explain everything that was talked about. If you have been in the military, you know that artillery is fired by coordinates given to the gun crew. These are just numbers on the map. They do not say what the target is or where. Someone who is under attack and needs support calls in the numbers and the crew fires. He claimed he knew they were being given orders to kill civilians. Our Military does not do this. He would have no way to know what the target was miles away or the situation at ground zero.
Gunny "

Gunny wrote on Aug 17, 2008 6:28 AM:

" After Paul spoke, I asked to talk with him about some of his remarks that as usual from a group with their agenda was inacurate. He stated that when he volunteered for the Army and went to the Hawaiian Islands it was great. When he got orders to Iraq, everything changed. He said he seldom left his base and was in artillery. He also spent a majority of his time on mess duty. He saw very little of what went on in Iraq but claims to be an expert about all the civilians being killed.

gunny "


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