Michael Welch wrote on Sep 6, 2008 11:37 AM:
" If you don't believe as 'Phil O'Bates' believes you are going to hell -- Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Catholics all included I assume, 'good' or 'bad.' That's a pretty rigid tight arsed 'God' you got there 'Phil'; He obviously needs an enema and probably so do you. You're the great one eyed jack 'O'B' -- follow the rules as YOU interpret them and you are 'saved,' whether you are 'good' or not I guess; it's all a matter of mind set -- the 'PO'B' mind set. Lots of folks in hell while 'PO' anticipates his safe berth in the heavenly choir but if there REALLY is a 'just God' Who despises evil 'PO'B' better prepare for much uh 'warmer' weather... "
richgarr wrote on Sep 5, 2008 10:06 PM:
" Joey- We're goin to the Browns game Nov. 2nd. You in? "
Eddie wrote on Sep 5, 2008 8:17 PM:
" Here we clearly see one form of Evil: the self-righteous, narcississtic, and patronizing ideology of the Religious Tyrant. All those who see life and the universe differently than he sees them are not only inferior to him, but deserve eternal punishment for being that way. The Tyrant not only condemns others for not being like him, but he shields himself from blame with transparent, false rationalizations (I am not condemning you, it's God doing it....it's the Bible doing it....it's not me). One can only pity such miserable, hate-filled people, and take solace in the fact that they are becoming extinct...slowly but surely. "
Phil O'Bates wrote on Sep 5, 2008 7:51 PM:
" ANYONE who hasn't accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior is headed for Hell. So according to the Bible, any religion that doesn't have that as it's baseline, is aiding in sending their followers to Hell.
I've never said Christians don't make mistakes. I can only guess as to what you are alluding to when you talk about invading any Muslim country, but that too is completely off base.
I do believe there are good Muslims, just as there are good Budhists, good atheists, or good Catholics, but good doesn't get you into Heaven. As a Christian, it is my job to proclaim the truth of Jesus and the Bible. Good people can reject Jesus and still go to Hell. "
Phil O'Bates wrote on Sep 5, 2008 7:47 PM:
" Michael,
You and I have hashed this and other topics out before and the end is the same, you ignore some of what I post to put me into your preconcieved box so that you can discount me. I will post the errors of your post about me, but then I have more important things to do than waste time with you going over the same stuff. "
Michael Welch wrote on Sep 5, 2008 12:27 PM:
" Okay -- so what do you 'believe' re: Muslims 'Phil'? WHERE specifically am I 'wrong' concerning your attitudes?... "
Phil O'Bates wrote on Sep 4, 2008 5:32 PM:
" I see Michael is still trying to speak for what I think. It's both sad and funny. It's sad that Michael has refused to accept what I have plainly written in the past and continues to try to make me fit into his preconstructed mold. It's funny if people take Michael's word for anything he says I believe. If people want to know what I believe, they only need to ask. "
Michael Welch wrote on Sep 4, 2008 12:16 PM:
" To guys like 'Phil O'Bates' Muslims ARE the 'new Jews,' i. e. those with the 'bad religion,' folks who are sneaky, avaricious and downright dangerous to the 'good' Christians who never make mistakes that matter when they attack any 'Muslim country.' 'PO'B' may not SAY that 'the only GOOD Muslim is a DEAD Muslim'; he'd simply say that the only 'good one' is a CONVERTED one -- i. e. there ARE then no, by definition, 'good Muslims'... "
Eddie wrote on Sep 3, 2008 8:11 PM:
" That is an interesting question - are individuals solely responsible for evil acts, or can an entire society also be blamed for being evil? If a society indoctrinates its children to see a particular ethnic group as sub-human (and therefore undeserving of respect or even their lives), then are those children to be called "evil" when they commit atrocities as adults? Hmmm...... "
Michael Welch wrote on Sep 3, 2008 1:18 PM:
" 'Evil' is the projection of our own 'dark side' as George Lucas long ago told us; what we don't want to think is human we anathematize, we say is always the INDIVIDUAL's fault because we discourage any sense that society and culture has its role or that that individual's psyche might be so damaged that it is ever caught in its perpetual narrow box. There are plenty of folks here who don't 'see' beyond religious platitudes but as for compassion -- when Peter asked Jesus how many times he ought to forgive (seven times?) Jesus said How 'bout seventy times seven, meaning just 'forgive' and don't count the numbers at all. That kind of Christianity died with him it appears... "
Phil O'Bates wrote on Sep 2, 2008 12:14 AM:
" The second part (when does compassion begin?) assumes that compassion exists outside of judgement and punishment. According to the Bible that isn't true.
Hebrews 12:6 "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth..." (Chasteneth comes from the Greek word saideuo which means punish.)
If a parent loves their children they punish their childrens works of evil to guide them to right behavior and protect them from future problems. If a parent doesn't care what happens to their children then they ignore punishing evil.
Christians can see the evil of people, be part of the collective government action to punish such evil, and still love the people committing the evil. You can do that when you realize that Satan uses people to accomplish his evil. Abhor the sin, love the sinner. "
Eddie wrote on Sep 2, 2008 12:09 AM:
" Ummm....county resident, I have been talking about it. I just haven't been obediently answering all your questions. Do you wish to discuss the topic, or do you want to interrogate people? If you have an opinion on the nature of evil and judgement, then by all means, share it. "
Phil O'Bates wrote on Sep 1, 2008 11:56 PM:
" Interesting question by Joe. The first part (when does judgement end?) is full of different perceptions. Are people supposed to stop making judgements on what is evil and what is good? I don't see Biblical support for such a notion. If you are to follow 1 Thess. 5:22 ("Abstain from all appearance of evil.") then you have to constantly be making judgements about what is evil and what is Holy.
If a person thinks that judgement means punishment, then that brings up a whole other topic. Individuals have limited areas to execute punishments for evil (parents of children). Governments can be ministers of God, though, for punishing evil (Romans 13:3,4). In the end, punishment should match the crime, but Mercy can always play a role. "
County resident wrote on Sep 1, 2008 6:50 PM:
" This is one of the best articles Joe as written in a long time. He has stubbled upon a truly spiritual problem that affects our current reality. How a culture determines right from wrong sets its course, either to postive or negative ends. But Eddie doesn't want to converse about it...and so goes the culture. "
Eddie wrote on Sep 1, 2008 6:04 AM:
" County resident, you sure are full of questions! My answer to all your questions is this - I'm not sure. What do YOU think the answers are? If you want answers, you'll have to use your own intellect and conscience, and then come to your own conclusions. Good luck! "
county resident wrote on Aug 31, 2008 10:52 PM:
" To Eddie: So what you decide is evil and what somebody else decides is evil is merely relative to their experience or what? How is evil determined? Who judges whether someones behavior is good or evil? Is it up to the individual? Is their a standard? "
Eddie wrote on Aug 31, 2008 4:59 PM:
" To County resident: How did I decide? Umm....I just gave my opinion on the subject, as others did. Secondly, I think that all people have the capacity to be good to each other or turn to evil. It's up to each and everyone of us to decide how we are to live. Are some people "born evil"? I don't think that they are, as doing Evil is a conscious choice that we all make. "
County resident wrote on Aug 31, 2008 7:58 AM:
" To Eddie: How did you decide that the examples of evil behavior you provided are in fact evil? Secondly, are some people born with a greater tendences then others to "delight" in evil, or is this tendency equal for everyone? "
Eddie wrote on Aug 30, 2008 8:37 PM:
" The absence of love is not evil. Being indifferent or uncaring is not evil. I'll tell you what is evil...it is causing harm for the sheer pleasure of doing harm. Hurting people because you enjoy or profit from it is Evil. Taking delight in being cruel is Evil. Getting off on the power that one feels while hurting others is Evil. We see little bits of evil here on thses blogs, as some like to belittle, patronize, and insult others so they can feel good about themselves. Evil is all around us if we look hard enough. "
County resident wrote on Aug 30, 2008 7:22 PM:
" To Mack: So what defines the "absense of love"? Would say that what the Book woman did was evil? "
County resident wrote on Aug 30, 2008 7:20 PM:
" Why did the Book baby die? It wasn't convenient for her to care for so she killed it. That is evil. It started within her, it went against God's law, it is evil. Evils ultimate goal is to pervert and destroy God's creation. That baby in the ice chest was God's contining creative power. We should be VERY concerned with students confusion about right and wrong, we should returning to the standard. How many "Book babies" will it take? "
County resident wrote on Aug 30, 2008 7:12 PM:
" Joe- The covenant you refer to in your first sentence was an agreement between God and man not "earth". Secondly, evil is define by the law of God. 10 commandments explain to us what is evil activity. Any disobedience to God's order results in evil. Lastly I think you need to see more of humanity if you believe that evil is not possible within people, that is where it starts. Check out the front page of the LAX Trib, her name is BOOK. "
Mack wrote on Aug 30, 2008 8:33 AM:
" Evil is not an entity in itself that can be standardized, fought or stamped out. It is an absense of love. "
possom133 wrote on Aug 30, 2008 8:09 AM:
" Joe you have led way to sheltered of a life if you think the "individual" is so fragile, you need to open your eyes and look around or better yet take a trip to Darfur sometime. Please do not forget of the loss of life, rape, and kidnapping, simply because you are afraid to see what some people are really like. Personally I think you need a turn in the military, it WILL open your eyes my friend. "