Click here to view La Crosse Area Weather
Home > Faith > Story
 Advertisement 

SECTION SPONSORS


Published - Sunday, September 14, 2008

POST COMMENT | READ COMMENTS (35 comment(s))

Joe Orso: Is it our fear of evil or the arms industry propelling us to war?


.
One narrative of American spirituality boomed over radio waves from the Republican National Convention last week.

In his address in St. Paul, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney had this to say about evil:
“Republicans believe that there is good and evil in the world. Ronald Reagan called out the Evil Empire. George Bush labeled the terror-sponsor states exactly what they are, the Axis of Evil. And at Saddleback (Church candidates’ forum), after Barack Obama dodged and ducked every direct question, John McCain hit the nail on the head: radical violent Islam is evil, and he will defeat it.”

Why did Romney say that?

During the same week Muslims began their Ramadan fast, this former presidential candidate narrowed a religion of more than a billion people to its violent minority.

And in a fury, his audience erupted into a chant: “U.S.A.! U.S.A.!”

We sounded blood-thirsty and ready for more war.

If Romney was going to mention Islam, he could have used his status to solidify relationships with peaceful Muslim neighbors.

But seven years after the Sept. 11 attacks, he — and we — remain easily drawn to hatred of enemies.

As another tragic anniversary passes, we’d all do well to ask ourselves a question: Why do we fight wars today?

If you want the answer, you’ll find it in the 2005 film “Why We Fight,” written and directed by Eugene Jarecki.

A warning: The documentary shows the charred, bloody corpses of Iraqi civilians piled up in a morgue, the result of what our leaders describe as precision warfare.

Just as disturbing as those images is the conclusion the film draws, which by its end is hard to dispute, as to why the United States fights wars in the first place: the military-industrial complex.

President Dwight Eisenhower, a Republican, made famous that term when he highlighted how the relationship between the military and the industries that support it can influence policy. In a speech he gave three days before leaving office in 1961, Eisenhower warned Americans that “in the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.”

It’s worth quoting a chunk of his text:

“Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. … This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence — economic, political, even spiritual — is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government.”

The film uses this speech as its launching point, and through interviews, including some with McCain, describes the evolution of this reality during the past half-century.

The trouble is, the complex network of corporate and military America is hard to see. And so when a politician like Romney plays on fear, we are ready to condemn a religion with him.

Instead of questioning our leaders’ motivations, we bang our chests.

Our spirituality, as clearly reflected in these moments as in churches, suffers.

And Eisenhower’s plea that we be “confident but humble with power” is forgotten.

Joe Orso works part time for the La Crosse Tribune and the Franciscan Spirituality Center. Opinions in this column are his own.
.



 Advertisement 
 Tell us what you think...

 Comments »

Eddie wrote on Sep 20, 2008 11:00 PM:

" Chris King, you completely misunderstood the meaning of the Military-Industrial Complex and its role in our foreign policy. President Eisenhower warned us of its influence in the 1950's - AFTER we ended WWII. The War Machine that exists today is indeed a source of evil. No one is talking about the days of World War. The issue is the corporate/military domination of our national economy and foreign policy, which creates a culture of warfare and a perpetual seeking out of "Enemies". Have you ever read "1984" by George Orwell? If not, please do so. It will give you good insight into how nation-states can quickly become dictatorships by always manufacturing "Enemies" to hate and fight. "

Chris King wrote on Sep 20, 2008 9:53 AM:

" Joe, you live in an ideological never never land, where the realities of the world are actually just some grand conspiracy by the Federal government. If you had any true understanding, you would build your arguments upon the fact that the Bible tells us the world is in darkness because of our sin! Without our military, the world would be even more hopeless. The state does not bear the sword in vain!

Joe Orso and Brian Smith in la la land? Indeed!! "

Chris King wrote on Sep 20, 2008 9:52 AM:

" Joe, your ideas on war are as ignorant as Brian Smith's theology! We go to war because of the military industrial complex? Really? Do you realize that without that military industrial complex, we would all be speaking German and our Jewish brothers and sisters would not be here, or we would be worshiping Allah at the point of a gun, or being tortured and killed for not worshiping the State as the giver and taker of all? "

Phil O'Bates wrote on Sep 19, 2008 11:51 AM:

" Katie,

I already explained the difference between Old Testament directions to the Children of Israel and current directions to the followers of Christ. Christ is the New Covenant between us and God, and Christ doesn't order us to kill those who don't believe in Christ or to stone our wife and kids.

I have some questions for you, do you call yourself a Christian? If so, what parts of the Bible do you not believe and why? By your 'literal' response, it sounds like your saying the Bible can't be trusted to be true. If I'm wrong in my assumption of your post, please clear it up.

Thank you. "

Phil O'Bates wrote on Sep 19, 2008 11:44 AM:

" County Resident,

I agree that Jesus was the final sacrifice.

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].

And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

But this man (Jesus), after he had offered ONE sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;" -Hebrews 10:10-12

Besides contradicting Catholic dogma of the Eucharist, I'm not sure what your point to me is. "

County resident wrote on Sep 19, 2008 9:21 AM:

" Phil: Jesus came to take all the violence of the sacrifacil system on Himself (on the cross). The O.T. sacrifaces were not about God they were for mans's unbelieving heart. Read the book of Hebrews; the woman that wrote it explains all the Old Testament stuff or try going to a church that does not run away from your questions. "

County resident wrote on Sep 19, 2008 9:18 AM:

" Can someone other than Phil please explain what Joe means by:"Our spirituality, as clearly reflected in these moments as in churches, suffers."

I sense he is once again pointing fingers at Christianity for motivating all the right wing philosohies of the Republican party but I don't get this one. "

Katie wrote on Sep 18, 2008 1:29 PM:

" Phil, you're downright stupid.
Do I need to start quoting the Bible and all of it's violence? You know, stoning your wife and children and whatnot?
It's all about comprehension. Some people take the Bible and Quran literally and use violence to "promote" it and please God. (Hello psycho Christians that bomb clinics and murder people) You can't judge the majority on the minority- in ANY religion. "

BrianGSmith wrote on Sep 18, 2008 2:07 AM:

" Getting back to the theme of Orso's essay. Yes....it is our military industrial media complex that creates the fiction of enemies at the gate so they can continue living high off the gravy train of government, no-bid military contracts. The fact that we have folks comparing the riff-raff known as Al Qaeda to the Nazi war machine, the Imperial Japanese and the EU Fascists demonstrates beyond a doubt how "fake" the threat we face is. Please recall.....15 SAUDI's with $2 boxcutters destroyed the American Way with the full throttled help of the neo-cons and their ignorant fence painters and apologists. If you knowingly follow a lie you are many degrees below the liar himself. "

BrianGSmith wrote on Sep 18, 2008 2:00 AM:

" Dear
Phil".....Jesus said he is here to turn brother vs brother, father vs son, etc....your spin doesn't eliminate that ugly fact. And RE: "bearing the cross".....I think Jesus was saying to "love your enemy"...."turn the other cheek"..."live in poverty".."care for the needy".....That is bearing the cross....not attending mass for 1 hour a week and dropping some coin in the collection plate and bashing the gays. I don't see any modern political leader bearing the 'cross'. Gandhi was the last real cross bearing "christian-esque" leader. "

BrianGSmith wrote on Sep 18, 2008 1:55 AM:

" Dear Phil....You admit never reading the Quran, you list two Quran quotes, probably read some paranoid right wing evangelist propoganda and YOU are trying to tell us how violent Islam and the Quran are. Poor work Phil. Secondly you take the clear and direct quoted from the Bible I offered and you try to spin them. Sorry dude.....they say what they say.......the Bible implore violence/death to non-beleivers as well. The Bible's 'words' have been used to burn, stone, hang, crush, destroy, annihilate hundreds of millions of human inhabitants of this planet since its writing. Alegedly our Prez fancies himself a "crusader" so you can chalk up all the dead Middle Eastern civilians to Christs words then. "

Phil O'Bates wrote on Sep 15, 2008 6:09 PM:

" Lastly, Brian mischaracterises me by claiming I proclaimed that the Quran is "more violent then the Bible." That's not what I said. What I said was that Muslims following the Quran and other Muslim 'holy writtings' are directed to kill unbelievers. These commands in the Quran are not just historical references like in Deut. or Numbers, but current commands to Muslims today.

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Qur'an 5:17 "Verily they are disbelievers and infidels who say, 'The Messiah, son of Mary, is God.'" "

Phil O'Bates wrote on Sep 15, 2008 6:02 PM:

" What Brian somehow misses in his posting of Matthew 10, is Jesus saying "... And he that taketh not his CROSS, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it." Matthew 10:38-39
Now if Jesus said "taketh up his SWORD" and follow me" then you would have a call to 'kill for Jesus' so to speak. But to take up your CROSS, is to take up your punishment. Jesus is clearly saying that people, even your own family, will reject and punish YOU for following Jesus, and that followers of Jesus should expect it. Yes, it is sad, but people have a free will to choose God or reject him. Because of that rejection there will be absence of true physical peace. "

Phil O'Bates wrote on Sep 15, 2008 5:53 PM:

" The answer for the Numbers verse is the same as the one for Deut.....it's not a current order. If the point of Brian is that God has commanded the physical destruction of those that oppose God, or abuse His people, and that killing or destrution is as bad as Islam, then I would disagree. Most people would say that killing the German war machine that was killing the Jews, was justified. Most people would not say that the killing of the Jews by the Germans was the same as the Allies killing the Germans. The end result, death, may be the same, but the reasons behind it determine it's justification. The overall point is that followers of Jesus are not commanded to kill unbelievers. "

Phil O'Bates wrote on Sep 15, 2008 5:47 PM:

" Deut. 13, is a recording of History, not a current or everlasting command by God. The Old Testament is the recording of the old covenant that God had with man. There are a couple of covanents between God and man. Some of these covenants or pacts were maintained through the priests or the nation of Israel. Jesus is the new covenant (Hebrews 12:24) which provides a relationship with God now. If you follow Brians idea, then I could go back and look at military orders from 1943 and bomb Germany. The answer has to do with context of the verse to the chapter, and the chapter to the book, and the book to the overall Bible. "

Phil O'Bates wrote on Sep 15, 2008 5:37 PM:

" Ok, Acts 3:23 does NOT say to kill unbelievers. First, Acts 3 centers around that healing a lame man by Peter. People are amazed and Peter explains what is the power behind this. The people he is talking to is Jews so he references what we call the Old Testament and their current history with Jesus's death and resurection. He talks about how people who listened to the old prophets benefited and those who didn't suffered. He then talks about how Jesus is the Prophet and rejecting him will have consequences. That consequence is not an order by Peter to kill unbelievers like Brian would have you believe. In actuality, Jerusalem and the priestly order was 'utterly destroyed'. Spritually, if the people of Acts or you reject Jesus then your destination is Hell, which will utterly destroy you. "

Phil O'Bates wrote on Sep 15, 2008 5:21 PM:

" To any lurkers out there confused by Brian's assumptions, don't take my word or Brian's word for it, research it yourself. There are plenty of places on the internet to find help. I like to use blueletterbible.com and carm.org, but there are many other great resources for finding answers. Just search under 'Christain answers' or 'Christian apologetics'. (Apologetics doesn't mean to apologize but to speak in defense of.) "

Phil O'Bates wrote on Sep 15, 2008 5:15 PM:

" To Brian Smith, I and others have gone over your misunderstandings of Scripture, but you cling to your own understanding, which is your free will to do so. I debated about responding because I know you just want to 'stir the pot' as it were. However, I realize that there may be a young, unguided lurker reading this blog, and I can use your misunderstanding as a guide for any such person. So for that reason, I thank you for the opportunity to direct people to a better understanding of the Scripture. "

Phil O'Bates wrote on Sep 15, 2008 5:08 PM:

" Eddie, you are partially right when you say there is no moral difference between Christians and Muslims. I am a Christian, I know that by accepting Jesus as God and Savior, that I am saved from Hell. That truth doesn't make me morally superior to Muslims because everyones morality is inferior to obtain Heaven. It is Jesus's morality and sacrifice that is morally superior and any inferior mortal can accept Jesus's gift of salvation. I'm not talking down to anyone. My morality or righteousness is as filthy rags. I am proclaiming Jesus's superior morality. "

BrianGSmith wrote on Sep 13, 2008 6:52 PM:

" Matthew 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me" "

BrianGSmith wrote on Sep 13, 2008 6:49 PM:

" Dear "Phil O"...How can you make the claim that the Quran is more violent than the Bible? Or which one implores/condones/wink-winks violence on non-believers? Arrogant Christians use passages of the Bible to make their point and they uses passages of the Quran to frame another. Jesus said he was here to set brother against brother....father against son.....I find that ridiculous. "

BrianGSmith wrote on Sep 13, 2008 6:42 PM:

" "And there came out a fire from the LORD, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense." -- Numbers 16:35 "

BrianGSmith wrote on Sep 13, 2008 6:39 PM:

" Deuteronomy 13:6-10 "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." "

BrianGSmith wrote on Sep 13, 2008 6:37 PM:

" ACTS 3:23 "Every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people." Here Peter claims that those who refuse to follow Jesus (all non-Christians) must be killed. "

Eddie wrote on Sep 13, 2008 6:23 PM:

" It is true that telling others that they are bound for Hell for not accepting Jesus doesn't "make" one arrogant or morally superior. The truth is that one has to ALREADY BE arrogant (and perhaps even delusional) to tell people that. It is the highest form of arrogance and narcissism to talk down to others like that. There is no moral difference between Christians who condemn non-believers and Muslims who condemn infidels. No moral difference at all. Charlatans and false prophets have been claiming to know people's fates for millenia, and they all faded away into obscurity and oblivion. They are not missed. "

Phil O'Bates wrote on Sep 13, 2008 4:39 PM:

" Eddie,
Fanatics don't need to follow any holy book to rationalize their evil acts. True, but studying the Bible is the Christians task, and the Bible doesn't direct Christians to kill unbelievers. A Muslim doesn't have to "twist" the Koran or other 'holy writtings' to justify killing unbelievers. Your example of Matthew is easily understood when you read the whole chapter (and no it doesn't justify killing unbelievers).
"Many arrogant Christians use Bible passages to claim moral superiority over others (as those others are bound for Hell because they didn't "accept Jesus".)" While it is true that if you don't accept Jesus as your savior you are bound for Hell, telling others about this fact doesn't make one arrogant or morally superior. "

Eddie wrote on Sep 13, 2008 3:28 PM:

" Religious fanatics don't need to follow any holy book to rationalize their evil acts. They make up their own rules as they go along. Even so, Christian fanatics can easily use Matthew 10:34 ("Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.) to rationalize their violence. Fanatics can twist and distort anything that has been said or written in order to justify their evil. That is the main disfunction of religions; followers almost always distort the original message and use it to serve their selfish desires....even if the original Messenger objects. Many arrogant Christians use Bible passages to claim moral superiority over others (as those others are bound for Hell because they didn't "accept Jesus".) This is one form of religious warfare - albeit a passive-aggressive and cowardly one. "

seekthetruth wrote on Sep 13, 2008 1:48 PM:

" It has happened, the truth is starting to be seen beyond the bloggers. Now research Operation Northwoods and see what our government was willing to do to get us into a war with Cuba. Then ask what is "thermal expansion - a brand new thing" and how it brought down WTC-7 that afternoon. You know, the building the 9/11 Report never mentioned?. Ask Rumsfield who "shot down" that plane over Pennsylvania he was talking about. The one that got retaken by passengers? Ask about Rudy saying no one knew the buildings would "implode", not no one knew they would collapse. Google any of the above topics and you will start to see what the Military-Industrial complex is capable of doing for profits! Now what are you going to do about it? "

Michael Welch wrote on Sep 13, 2008 12:32 PM:

" Once Christianity acquired the status of the ONLY approved 'state religion' of the Roman empire it allied itself with conquest. The US consitution eschews it a formal status but in effect 'Christian' conquest -- of Amerindians, of Hawaiians, Filipinos etc., even to an extent of Iraqis -- has been employed as the subtext of our foreign wars. Eisenhower said that 'we have been COMPELLED to create a permanent armaments industry,' meaning it was unavoidable, BUT he was warning that it ought to be used 'sparingly' and not come to dominate our political, social and moral lives. The American government has NEVER followed that advice. As for the 'crusades,' they were launched under false premises and they erupted a world that was not ipso facto 'threatening.' Since then we have, as the Bible says, reaped what WE have sown... "

Phil O'Bates wrote on Sep 13, 2008 11:35 AM:

" First to Eddie, the difference between things like the Inquisition and the murdering done by Muslims is that one is following their 'holy' book and the other is not. In Islam, it is sanctioned in the Koran and other writtings to kill an unbeliever, in Christianity there is NO call to kill people because they don't believe in Jesus.
To Wheezer, even atheism is a religion. It is a religion of self. If you listen to all of Lenon's song, you see he is calling for socialism. If you read history, you'll see that that goal got over 100,000,000 people killed.
To Joe, How often do you beat your dog? The point is that your title is self limiting. There are many reasons why people fight wars, but the most noble is to protect the innocent. "

wiseup wrote on Sep 13, 2008 11:01 AM:

" When Clinton got us into Bosnia, I didn't hear many complain. The US was one of the LAST countries to get into WW1 and WW2, so all you that believe that our leaders are bloodthirsty and out to line their own pockets are ridiculous! If you want to protest war, don't do it in our parks and post office~ go to Iraq, Iran, North Korea, China and Russia and TELL THEM! "

Mack wrote on Sep 13, 2008 7:46 AM:

" Fear no evil. A lot of Americans are automatically on board with anything we do with our military. We need to question more. In Iraq and Afghanistan we killed enormous numbers of innocent people and still cannot find Bin Laden. We cannot win in Iraq even though the other side doesn't even have an army. Does incompetent use of our power still make us a superpower? "

Wheezer wrote on Sep 13, 2008 4:47 AM:

" "Imagine no religion. It's easy if you try..." John Lennon "

Eddie wrote on Sep 13, 2008 3:04 AM:

" And as for why we wage wars of aggression, I would argue that we do so for two fundamental reasons: competition over resources/wealth, and personal lust for conquest. Those are the two reasons why any nation wages wars of aggression. Our government's leaders (and their corporate puppetmasters) wage war because they get RICH from it, and because our Presidents and Generals enjoy the conquest of the "Enemy". "

Eddie wrote on Sep 13, 2008 2:57 AM:

" Romney was correct about "radical violent Islam", for it is evil. Romney was NOT speaking about all of Islam. He specifically pointed out the "radical violent" form of the religion. It is hateful, sadistic, murderous, and nihilistic. However, we also need to undertand that it is no less evil than several Christian sects that have tortured people throughout History. The Crusades, the Inquisition, witch-burnings, and many other acts of Christian torture and murder prove that any religion can suffer from dysfunction and even evil practices. "


PLEASE NOTE: Comments on stories that frequently update through the day disappear with each update.
The comments above are from readers. In no way do they represent the views of the La Crosse Tribune.

Click here to report offensive or inappropriate comments. Please identify the comment you're concerned about, the story to which the comment was attached, the date of the comment and the person who made the post.

 Post a comment (150 word limit) »

Log In - If you have already signed up with The LaCrosse Tribune, please sign in now!
Member ID:
*Password:
  Forgot Your Password?
 
Sign Up - To encourage intelligent and meaningful conversation, The LaCrosse Tribune requires all commenters to register before posting comments. It's quick, it's easy, and it's free! Just fill in the information below to get started!

**Your Member ID and password will be required to log in. Your comments will appear under your user name.

Do not use usernames or passwords from your financial accounts!

Note: Fields marked with an asterisk (*) are required!

Create a Member ID:
*Choose a password:
*Re-enter password:
E-mail Address:
Year of Birth:
 

(children under 13 cannot register)

First Name:
Last Name:
Company:
Home Phone:
Business Phone:
Address:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
 

NEWSPAPER ADS

LACROSSE JOBS

TOP HOMES

HomeSeller
Top Homes



 
 
Dailies
La Crosse Tribune
Winona Daily News

Weeklies
Coulee News
Courier Life News
The Chronicle
Houston County News
Tomah Journal
Vernon Broadcaster
Westby Times

Regional
Inside Preps
My LIVE! Entertainment
Best of River Valley
Business Report
Healthy Living Today
Strictly Golf
River Valley Bike Trails
River Valley Blogs
River Valley Outdoors

Shoppers
Tri-County Foxxy

Marketplace
Newspaper Ads
Local Website Directory
7 Rivers Rentals
HomeSeller
Wheels Website
Outdoor Motors
Work For You

Portals
La Crosse NET
Winona NET

Classifieds
River Valley Classifieds

Links
Lee Enterprises

About Us | Classifieds | Contact Us | Terms of Use | F.A.Q. | Privacy Policy | Requests | Search | RSS | Videos | Advertiser Directory | Add to My Yahoo!
Copyright © 1997 - 2008 The La Crosse Tribune. All rights reserved.
Material from this site may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or distributed. A Lee Enterprises subsidiary.